Buying, selling, shipping

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by NGIB, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    This can get confusing as both state & federal laws apply. I'll talk about GA and these statements will apply to most states. Some states add extra steps, like California, so check your state laws.

    Face to face sale. I can sell a handgun to a GA resident as long as I'm "reasonably" certain it's legal for them to own a gun. I do not need any paperwork nor do I need to get a bill of sale - but some folks do. As a minimum, check their DL to make sure they're a GA resident and they are old enough. How do I know whether they are a felon? One way is to ask if they have a carry permit (a GFL here). If they do, then I know they have cleared a background check and all is good. Do I have to - no, I just have to reasonably believe they are allowed to own a gun.

    You cannot sell a handgun face to face to a resident of another state - period. This is a violation of federal law. Sales to residents of another state must go through an FFL (dealer) in the buyer's state.

    Buying online. You find the gun you want here or on Gunbroker - how do you get it? The first thing you do is find a local FFL that will receive the gun and transfer it to you on a Form 4473. You will pay a fee for this which can range from nothing to $100 or more. Talk to your dealer and make sure you get this part clearly understood - before you make the purchase.

    Some FFLs will accept a gun from a private seller, some will not. It's legal for them to do so but some will not accept the risk. Be sure to ask. If they do accept a shipment from a private seller, they will require the seller to include proof of identity in the box, usually a copy of their drivers license. They have to do this as they must have a legal way to prove where they got the gun to enter it in their book. If they do not accept from a private seller, you can find one that does or you ask the seller if they will ship from their FFL. If the seller has to ship from their FFL they will be hit with costs on their end.

    You pay the seller for the gun and send the seller a copy of your dealer's FFL. Many sellers will accept a faxed FFL, where some will want a signed original. Some dealers will give you a copy of their FFL so you can send it, some will not and they will send it. If you're buying from Bud's or another large online dealer, your dealer's FFL may already be on file. Each transaction can be different - make sure you understand what will be required for your purchase.

    Shipping. An FFL is allowed to use the USPS (post office) to ship a handgun, non-FFLs are not. It is a violation of federal law for a non-FFL to ship a handgun through the post office - period. Non-FFLs must ship a handgun through a commercial carrier such as UPS or FedEx. These carriers require that handguns be shipped express (next day air) and it is costly. Some folks just lie and do not tell the carrier that the box contains a gun so they can ship at "ground" rates. It is a violation of federal law if you do not tell the carrier that the box contains a gun. Some folks also think they can break a gun into pieces and get around this law - can't do it legally. The serialized part (usually the frame) is considered a gun for legal purposes. Yes you can send a slide with no problems; however, the frame is the gun and all laws apply.

    Non-FFLs may ship by UPS or FedEx to an FFL or a manufacturer as long as they follow the above rules. My FFL will ship a gun for me at USPS flat rates so it's much cheaper if I bring it to him and let him send it.

    Anyway folks, these are the highlights and if you want to verify any of this - knock yourself out. I have read the specific legal stuff myself and you're welcome to dig it up yourself to verify what I've written. I personally have never wanted to visit federal prison so I tend to be a tad anal about following the law...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  2. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Another note about non-FFL shipping. Many times you will have to take your gun to a "hub" or "service center" to ship. Some outlets, like a UPS Store, will not accept a gun for shipment. My UPS store will so I'm lucky that way. Be sure to have a copy of the receiver's FFL packed in the box as well as another copy to show to the shipping agent.

    And yes, I have shipped handguns this way a few times. I've also had my FFL ship them for me, which in many cases is less hassle and cheaper...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010

  3. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    Question for clarification: I thought that there is an exception to the rule for transfer of a firearm to an immediate family member (farther, mother, son, daughter), even if such person is a resident of another state. Any idea on this, as I can't find it in writing?
     
  4. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    There are special gifting rules but TBH I'm not familiar with them...
     
  5. Car54

    Car54 New Member

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    Very good post NGIB.
     
  6. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Thank you pardner. We had a young fella come VERY close to a felony yesterday and I couldn't find a post like this so I wrote one.

    A mod should probably sticky this so folks can find it, especially after you wise folks fill in the areas I did not cover to well...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  7. Car54

    Car54 New Member

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    Was that the one that was going to drive a few hours for a FTF with the seller?
     
  8. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Yup, Skull & I were on that one. I reported his post to get a mod's attention and JD flew in and let the young man know his plan was bad...
     
  9. TheOldMan

    TheOldMan New Member

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    Great post NGIB.

    Question: What if the person you're selling to FTF has a CCW but has been charged with a felloney but is out on bail or what not. ? Guess that can happen regardless though right?
     
  10. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    Sure. All that's required here in GA is that you are not aware of any reason the buyer can't own the gun. If they tell you they're a felon - the deal's off...

    (And yes folks, I buy/sell/trade way to much which is why I know this crap)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  11. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    I second the 'sticky'. We have plenty of new members who stop in and are looking to buy their first gun. Some of this is something I bet they have never thought about.

    As far as the gifting goes, I would suggest people check their state laws. I imagine gifting in Arizona or Texas is different than receiving a gift in Cali.
     
  12. planenut

    planenut New Member

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    Motion to "second" passed!
     
  13. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Additional note- unless YOU are a "licensed person"- meaning holder of a FFL, you may NOT TRANSFER any firearm to a resident of another state- unless THEY are a "licensed person". Includes rifles, shotguns, handguns, and anti-aircraft missles. Includes 'face to face". A DEALER can sell a rifle or shotgun to someone visiting from another state- a private citizen cannot- and that is spelled out quite plainly in Title 18 US Code, section 922.

    The exception is not "gifting"- it is inheritance. The Executor of the estate acts on behalf of the deceased, and can transfer firearms to the inheritor without regard to their state of residence. When Dad died, he was a Virginia residnet, I was a Colorado resident. I recieved his firearms directly. This is also in 922.

    Regarding shipping a firearm- whether by US Mail, FedEx, UPS, OR handing it to the baggage folks at Untied Airlines (that was not a typo) you MUST inform the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The Feds HAVE put folks in the slammer over this.

    And you CAN ship or mail a rifle or shotgun to YOURSELF in another state- legally. Going to hunt at the Big Sky Lodge in Montana- I can mail my rifle, adressed to myself, in care of Big Sky Lodge. The ownership of that rifle did not transfer to another person.