Buying a Stripped Lower if I'm under 21

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by iwasrunning, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. iwasrunning

    iwasrunning New Member

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    Im looking to build my first AR 15. Problem is I'm 18. I realize it is illegal for me to buy stripped lower from a FFL dealer. However, I was wondering if it would be legal for me to buy the stripped lower online with my debit card, but have my mom pick it up from the FFL dealer and pay for the transfer?

    If it helps any I am a Michigan resident.

    Thanks.
     
  2. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    Then i assume when your mom picks it up from your ffl/lgs, it will be registered under her name?. Who's buying and paying it online is not important. Whose name it will be registered is the important part. Just becareful that your mom won't fall into "straw purchase" thing.
    Correct me if i'm wrong.
     

  3. Rarity

    Rarity New Member

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    No, you can't do this. This is considered a straw purchase. You personally purchasing the lower, and having your mother get it for you is prohibited unless she purchases it, keeps it under her name, and you leave it in the house you should be fine.

    Check local laws also.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    If you are under 21 but at least 18 you can buy your buttstock assembly that you plan to use and let the shop install it before they sell it to you. This makes it a rifle at the time of sale and legal for an 18 year old to buy. Converting a rifle to a pistol afterward would be illegal.
     
  5. iwasrunning

    iwasrunning New Member

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    So basically it would be much easier if i had my mom pay for it online as well as pick it up, but I just pay her back?
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    thats not legal to do its called manufacturing. the shop has to have the proper license to manufacture firearms which isnt your typical FFL. thats why you dont see shops doing that all the time.

    if a person purchases a stripped lower fills out the paperwork as such then hands the lower immediately afterwards to the shop to install a stock or LPK its gunsmithing. but they cant legally sell a stripped lower and register it as a rifle at time of sale. what you do with it and who you pay to help you put the parts together is your business once its in your name. so you gotta wait to build until your 21 as you cannot legally take possesion in sale of a stripped lower.

    parents buying guns for their children is a grey area that can be interpreted in many ways. doing this puts you at the mercy of whatever federal goon of a district attourney or goon of a state attourney wants to charge you and your parent. not a good idea.

    buy a full rifle under 21 or wait time until your legal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  7. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Because some stripped lowers can be assembled as pistols, the sale to anyone under the age of 21 is forbidden.
     
  8. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Buy a LRB stripped lower , Its stamped US Rifle on the lower and it cannot be used as a pistol lower . I know this for a fact because we bought 50 of these for a group buy and some of the guys were not happy that they could not be registered as pistols but for the price they paid they didnt say a word . That takes care of your age problem and it not being registered as a pistol :D Hope that helps and I believe Rainier Arms has these in stock and on sale for $99

    http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1417

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  9. iwasrunning

    iwasrunning New Member

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    Thank you very much for all your help. It is much appreciated.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    From what i understand the atf doesnt care what is written on the side other than the serial number. It can say anything and still be made into a rifle or pistol. A stripped reciever is still sold as an other whether it says deathstar laser cannon or rifle or bazooka its still not a rifle or pistol
     
  11. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    What if he bought a built lower with a rifle stock? Would that be considered a rifle by BATF?

    OP: In any case if you pay for it and mom picks it up in her name that is a straw purchase. Some FFLs might think differently but it is better for both you and your mom to err on the side of caution. Your mom would have to buy it and gift it to you with no money changing hands as a part of the transaction.

    Of course, the BATFE has no way of knowing about that few hundred dollars that you loaned your mom and forgot to get paid back for.........
     
  12. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Hmm this is very interesting because we were told these could not be used for pistol lowers
     
  13. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    I receiver whether it is stripped or complete must be purchased by someone who is 21 according to my IOI. Same as a pistol grip shotgun (don't ask). Now your mother can purchase it and gift it to you as long as it is not against your state laws, I would check your state laws.
     
  14. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Maybe that is that they cannot legally be used as pistol lowers but functionally there is no reason why not.

    I figure the BATFE just hasn't updated their legal mumbo jumbo to account for modular firearms like the AR, and in all reality they should not. It is too complicated the way it is and leaves far too much up to interpretation by the individual. Present conversation illustrates that fact.
     
  15. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    They have no clue! I've talked to several other dealers and everyone gets a different answer from their IOIs, it's ridiculous
     
  16. cuate

    cuate New Member

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    Isn't it rather hypocritable that a Nation and it's States & Cities that can send an 18 year old man to fight the hated enemy in the Middle East and whom might even be murdered there by the so called Police & Troops of that country cannot be considered mature enough to buy a lower rifle part for himself without a hitch ? If he is man enough to send to war, he is man enough for anything !
     
  17. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    PSA has there Blem stripped lowers back on the board for $59 again :D
     
  18. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    What is an IOI?

    It does not surprise me one bit though. As I said, it leaves a lot up to interpretation.

    In my opinion, the OP, or any other 18-year-old legally able to own a long gun should be able to purchase the stripped lower as long as he purchases the rifle upper and buffer tube first. He could then assemble his legal long gun as he wished, but when he turns 21 then he could re-assemble it legally as a pistol if he chose to do so. The whole debate about the stripped lower being "other" is moot, as long as the under-21 purchaser is fully informed (perhaps in writing) that his lower cannot legally be assembled as a pistol until he is 21 it should all be OK.

    Maybe run that one by the BATFE (would that be the IOI?)
     
  19. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Industry Operations Investigator, they are the guys and gals that come around and make sure us dealers are behaving.
     
  20. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    ANY purchase wherein the registered owner is not the actual user/purchaser is legally a "Straw Buy." Anytime two people are involved in a purchase they both risk 5-7 years in sunny Leavenworth, Kansas, Especially not worth it when it involves family.