Firearms Talk banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
that's like asking which is better...Ford or Chevy?

it's all a matter of personal taste...they are both reputable brands, with excellent track records. they've both had lemons due to whatever reason, and they've both had winners...more winners than losers with either.

take your pick, you won't go wrong with either. there...the PC answer.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Depends on which RRA as well. My RRA CAR4 has the NM trigger and is quite nice to shoot. I believe they gaurantee thier rifles to shoot a certain MOA.

Only downside to mine is the barrel is HBAR and heavier than the M4 cut style barrels. RRA has a back order for thier parts, but thier rifles supposedly ship within 3-5weeks.

Have you considered other brands as well? DPMS, LMT, CMMG, and Stag make fine rifles as well. You can also get the price down by building your own lower. A lot of places offer everything but the lower. You buy the kit then hit your local shop or gun show and get a matching lower to complete the rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
Depends on which RRA as well. My RRA CAR4 has the NM trigger and is quite nice to shoot. I believe they gaurantee thier rifles to shoot a certain MOA.

QUOTE]

Don't always believe what any manufacturer states as their guaranteed accuracy. It's almost impossible to guarantee a certain MOA, without being able to duplicate the exact conditions to which they achieved that "guaranteed accuracy". Not saying that there aren't a few rifles out there that will match what they state in their ads, but very few.

And again, not to take anything away from Rock River, specially since I own one (and a few Bushmasters, too), but if you get caught up reading their 'guaranteed accuracy' of their rifles, then you must have also noticed that their cheapest rifle outshoots their most expensive?:confused: :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
Price wise, I still think one of the best bangs for the buck out there is a Stag. Next would be a DPMS.

But between the two you are asking about, I do own at least one of each, and have yet to really find much of a difference between them in regards to quality, reliability, functionality, and accuracy. They both go bang every time I pull the trigger, and I would not balk at grabbing one to protect me and mine.

The only real difference, and it's one that you'll read on almost any forum, is the fit of the upper to lower receiver on Rock River Arms. It is one tight fit, probably the tightest of any manufacturer. If that is something you seek, then there it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
Bushmaster makes the most in numbers and is like a GM family car. Reliable and dependable. Stag is a step up, Rock River another step up.

Nobody builds a tighter upper and lower than Les Baer...they are made exactly to the Govt Tech Data Package prints.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
I prefer Stag to either in that price range.

However, it's a toss up between RRA and Bushmaster but RRA has closed the gap recently IMO by offering different barrel contours as options (lightweight M4 barrels, superlight pencil barrels, etc...).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Stag

I have been thinking about a stag its just that my local gun shop was pushing the RRA and the bushmaster. Stag Arms is looking real nice on there web-site.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
I bought the RRA NMA4 for $915. Their accuracy guarantee IS wrong! It was guaranteed to shoot 3/4"moa - mine does less than 1/2" moa! It has a 20" air gauged stainless bull barrel, NM front & Rear sights (you can choose a smaller .030 hooded aperture for no additional cost) , excellent NM 2-stage trigger, Hogue rubber finger grooved grip, thermo-mold free-float handguard, (2) 20 rd, mags, a hard case, sling, and detacheable carry handle. There is absolutely NO PLAY between the upper and lowere receivers, and the finish is the best I've ever seen in a "black rifle". I love it. The wait is longer than 5 wks - mine took almost 12 weeks because RRA was awarded two federal contracts that they are busy filling - one for 5000 rifles for the DEA, and the other for the FBI. So in my opinion, and with the experience that I've had with my rifle, I think RRA is probably the best deal available for the price. I have a very accurate DPMS LR308 also, but the trigger sucks and the gun is not as nicely finished as the RRA. It cost $850 and will cost me about $200 more for another trigger. My brother has an original Colt AR-15 from the 1970's and it is no where near as accurate as either rifle. As someone stated above RRA does make a $2500 AR-15 that has an accuracy guarantee of 1.5" moa, but that is because is is the "Government Model" , has a lighter, shorter barrel, and is all tricked-out for LE use. Most guns marketed to the LE community will generally put more emphasis on rails, stocks, and appearance than accuracy - tactical "entry" rifles don't need to be target rifles. I don't think you can get a BETTER rifle for under $1000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
???

LOL...not that it really matters, but compare RRA's CAR A2/A4 to any of their PRO series or Elite Comp. None of which are really designed for one set market or another. Let me guess...all the doo-dads and bling-bling take away from your accuracy?:p

And if memory serves me right, most government contracts are awarded to the LOWEST bidder, not necessarily the highest performer.;)

But that's just my .02.

And to top it off, I still like Bushmaster and Rock River....along with Armalite, Colt, DPMS, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, LMT, Larue, and my latest addition to the safe, a Noveske. They are all good in their own ways. And to the original poster, you can't go wrong with any of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
LOL...not that it really matters, but compare RRA's CAR A2/A4 to any of their PRO series or Elite Comp. None of which are really designed for one set market or another. Let me guess...all the doo-dads and bling-bling take away from your accuracy?:p

And if memory serves me right, most government contracts are awarded to the LOWEST bidder, not necessarily the highest performer.;)

But that's just my .02.

And to top it off, I still like Bushmaster and Rock River....along with Armalite, Colt, DPMS, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, LMT, Larue, and my latest addition to the safe, a Noveske. They are all good in their own ways. And to the original poster, you can't go wrong with any of them.

You are comparing apples and oranges! The "Elite" and "Pro" series are all short barrelled (16") , NON-HBAR, sleletonized stock, quad rail "assault" rifles (even though I despise the term, I'll use it here to make a point), and yes, they are meant to appeal to a specific market - those only interested in TACTICAL RIFLES. In fact the "Pro" series and "Pro Series Elite" are not even available with "substitutions" such as heavy barrel, bull barrel, longer barrel, competition sights, or A2 stocks or forends - hence the advertised accuracy of only 1 - 1.5" moa as compared to their other offerings, such as the NMA4 and Varmint grade rifles. If I wanted poor accuracy ratings, I could have bought the Colt or Armalite - for $500 more than I spent on the RRA NMA4.
As far as awarding of government contracts goes, you are right to a point. I know, I used to bid government contracts in the Aviation/Simulation field, and I lost a bid on a Visual Display System that has been at the pinnacle of VDS's for well over 30 years - in fact our system was purchased for use in the Space Shuttle in the early 90's. The reason - price! In the Aviation field quality seems to take a back seat to price. In firearms however, there exists a set of non-negotiable standards and tests that MUST be met for a weapon or weapons system to be accepted. RRA won those contracts, both DEA and FBI. I did the research priior to my RRA acquisition and the top contenders for my money, Colt and Armalite, did not publish accuracy standards that appealed to me, and their prices were FAR higher than RRA's. That being said, they all make good and dependable products, but given the vast array of manufacturers, it stands to reason that someone must occupy the high ground - for me, and for the present time, that's RRA. The Value: Price relationship should always be considered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
You are comparing apples and oranges! The "Elite" and "Pro" series are all short barrelled (16") , NON-HBAR, sleletonized stock, quad rail "assault" rifles (even though I despise the term, I'll use it here to make a point), and yes, they are meant to appeal to a specific market - those only interested in TACTICAL RIFLES. In fact the "Pro" series and "Pro Series Elite" are not even available with "substitutions" such as heavy barrel, bull barrel, longer barrel, competition sights, or A2 stocks or forends - hence the advertised accuracy of only 1 - 1.5" moa as compared to their other offerings, such as the NMA4 and Varmint grade rifles. If I wanted poor accuracy ratings, I could have bought the Colt or Armalite - for $500 more than I spent on the RRA NMA4.QUOTE]

LOL...no problem. But to make my point, the RRA products I mentioned were basically comparable in barrel length. The only real differences between the ones I mentioned were the mods they added to those high $$ models. That is why they are not available with subs. IF the add-ons are what you are looking for, they offered a few models with some very popular modifications, that seemingly are high on the enthusiast's radar. And each of the models I was comparing were offered with the NM 2-stage trigger. I never compared their 20" offerings in my post. My point being, the ones I listed are very comparable, EXCEPT in price. That being said, it just seems very strange that they would advertize their most expensive rifle (with all the add-ons) and state it's accuracy of 1.5 MOA, when you can buy basically the same 16" model, without all the bells and whistles, that that they advertize will shoot 1 MOA? With the difference of $2000, you could modify the cheaper model into just about anything you wanted it to be. But then again, with the $2900, you would have quite a few options in the top tier segment of the market, such as Wilson Combat, Les Baer, LMT, Noveske, etc.

To the original poster, for the price range of the models you were most likely looking at, in the Bushmaster or RRA, you won't go wrong with either. The RRA models are available with their 2-stage National Match trigger, a very nice option. Since you never really mentioned if you were looking for a rifle or carbine, the availability of the 2-stage NM trigger, and one of their 1:8 twist barrels, in 16" or 20" size, would give you a very good firearm capable of very good accuracy. As for the all the options, that is basically up to what you want your firearm to be, form, fit, or function. That is one of the best things about the AR, the ease of modification. So go pick one out, and go out and enjoy.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
rock river arms but there is absolutely nothing wrong with bushmaster either they both are quality made ar15's :D :D :D :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
Incidentally, while the retail price of the RRA NMA4 is $1215, they offer FFL dealers the same gun for $915! That's how I got mine - through a friend with an FFL who allowed me to order it. So for $915 I got a match-grade AR-15. Their Standard A2 model, which has more match features than what Bushmaster and Colt would sell you for $1000 and above(Colt) will cost a dealer less than $700. The Standard A2 comes with the NM 2-stage trigger, and the 20" Heavy contour Chrome Moly barrel. AS far as I know, nobody offers those features on an AR-15 for less than $700...I might be wrong, and I can only speak to what I have experience with, so RRA gets my vote of confidence. I would have ordered their .308 version, unfortunately they are back logged from Dec.2007 with orders and have not even started production, so I bought the DPMS instead. It is a very well made and accurate gun also, but has a lousy trigger which will cost an additional $200 to fix, bringing the total to over $1050, which is about $150 more than the RRA LAR-308 WITH the NM 2-stage trigger as a standard item!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top