Bundys charges dismissed

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Ghost1958, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing controversial about facts in evidence leading to a dismissal.
    I don't have to knock the BLM, FBI or Prosecutors in this mess.
    They did a dandy job of that themselves.

    Now. I'll not be responding to you again in this thread.
    Don't like what's in it then move along and don't read it. Simple.
     
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  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    Legal and Activism


    Topics related to the legal, political and activism of our 2nd Amendment rights.

    hmmmm...again more deflection. nothing about the Bundy's case has anything to do with this section of the forum.
     
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  3. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The Federal Government owns most of the land in the west, and Alaska, because it bought it, or went to war with someone, (in some instances, a series of someones if you count the Indians as someone), to get ownership. Alaska was purchased from Russia. The northwest bought from the British. The southwest acquired from Mexico, through a war. The stuff in the middle bought from the French. Stuff in the east was given to the federal Government by some of the states, who realized, the land didn’t generate enough taxes to cover the cost of governance.

    Anybody who thinks most of the lands in the west, can generate enough money to cover the cost of managing it, has blinders on. Most of it was eligible for homesteading, and mineral claims. And, all of it that it was economically viable, was claimed. What is left, wasn’t worth the cost of claiming it, and realistically still isn’t.

    I read comments like, the Federal Government had no right to take all that land from the State, in reference to Nevada, and want to scream.

    The Federal Government, owned all of Nevada, after taking it from Mexico. They didn’t take it from the State, because there was no State. When Nevada became a State, it was given it’s choice, of 1/16th of the land as State land. The politicians in charge immediately picked, everything with water, or minerals. And, then sold it too themselves, at an unadvertised, “public” auction, immediately after ending the first legislative session.

    Most folks don’t realize it, but the Feds tried really hard to give land away in Nevada. Southern Nevada was the last place in the continental US, you could homestead, and all you had to do was build a residence, with a water system. No grow a crop, or build fences, as was required everywhere else to prove a home stead. Just build a “house”, and live on the property.

    Say the Federal Governmet were to decide to give away the land it owns in the west. How do the rest of the citizens who have just as much ownership of the land, as the people in the respective states get compensated. Do we just give the folks in the west, the land that belongs to every citizen, just because they live in a state with federal lands? Not sure it’s fair to take away the share of ownership, of folks in New Jersey, and give it to the folks in Utah.

    Personally, I consider my self extremely lucky, to live in Idaho, and have the Federal Government spend the taxes generate by all you folks in the more populated states pay the bills for BLM, and the Forest Service to manage all this land so I can go recreate on it basically unencumbered. Most years, the Federal agencies, spend at least half of the entire State of Idaho general budget, fighting wildland fires. In a bad fire year, the Feds spend more than the State spends in it’s entire budget. If Idaho owned the land and had to pay to fight the fires, they would have to sell the land at auction, just to pay the bills from the fire fighting.

    The folks, in the western states who want State control of the lands, are the rich, and their politician lap dogs. The sportsmen, and others who recreate on the land want no part of it.
     
  4. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    None of that really applies.
    Nevada, basically was, blackmailed into giving up the land it encompassed to be accepted as a, state.
    Long and short of it is , as another already pointed out, the constitution is pretty clear what the Fed may squire land for and specifically stated what it can do with it.
    Docks , magazines ,etc.
    No refuges, monuments, grazing alottments etc ad nausea.

    The DOJ tried and retried the Bundys over and over. With judges who everything but threw the defense attorneys out of the building.
    They could not, not were they ever going to get weapons convictions or anything else in jury trials because they had no legal constitutional case.
    That their own corruption from Fed LE actions up the ladder to prosecutors simply exposed the depth of corruption and law breaking they gleefully went too.
    And we do not know the half of that because Navarro in dismissal of the case sealed most of their wrong doing to save their butts.

    The Fed grip on illegally held lands is slipping.
    The BLM continues to do the same things to this day that got this case canned.
     
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  5. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member

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    Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism.

    EARL WARREN, Address to National Press Club in Washington DC, April 1953
     
  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    [QUOTE="Ghost1958, post: 1905945, member: 66740"

    But his, his son Rory, and friends involvement is common knowledge.
    Up to and including pointing out the location to the china firm involved.
    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bundy-ranch-harry-reid-rory-reid/[/QUOTE]

    First, this is not "common knowledge. More like a rumor started by the cretin Bundy.

    And one right-wing website, or even one hundred extremist websites does not constitute proof.

    got anything from Fox news, Reuters, or any other credible sources???
     
  7. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First, this is not "common knowledge. More like a rumor started by the cretin Bundy.

    And one right-wing website, or even one hundred extremist websites does not constitute proof.

    got anything from Fox news, Reuters, or any other credible sources???[/QUOTE]

    Best I can tell, it's a discredited story.

    ellis
     
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  8. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    RR and WACO are seperate cases for a different discussion. Bunkerville NV can be debated on the merits of Water rights VS Federal Aurhority and we may well fall on different sides of that argument, but, given the power we hand to LE, we should all be able to agree that when LE and DA’s commit purgery and withhold exculpatory information, the case should be, and has been, dismissed with prejudice. We should also agree that lying in court to secure conviction should result in charges.
     
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That part of Nevada was in the throes of a long time drought at the time of the Bundy insurrection. The pasturing of cattle had permanently damaged the ecosystem.

    Lake Mead water levels are near all time low.

    http://mead.uslakes.info/level.asp
     
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  10. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wasn't arguing that CS. happen to agree fully.

    All I was doing was pointing out that there are three sides to every story, and with the case from the OP (Which I couldn't read, as I have a certain member on ignore BTW), as with the other two, BOTH sides stepped in it, not just one or the other.

    In any case along these lines, the accused did have to do something to pop up on Fed radar.

    I don't agree with the actions of either side, but I do agree with the dismissal, on grounds of perjury by the prosecution's witnesses, and that said members of Fed LE need to be charged for having done so, and tried.
     
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  11. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    I do agree with Bundy’s actions in Bunkerville. BLM ran every compliant Rancher in Clark County out of business by cutting head allotments and harassment over Water right. The Bundy familly owned its water Rights before the BLM existed, and Cliven refused to pay the people who were working to run him out of business and off the land. He stood up to tyrants and won, which for me is saying a lot because I am typically a full tilt supporter of Law Enforcement. Unfortunately for the Government, in this case, Bundy’s Rights Pre dates there laws, and had he the faith to stand his ground.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  12. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    With all due respect Locotus... they are now 2 and 0 VS the Fed’s so... that “idiot” label might be better applied to the Government Employees who can’t seem to find a way to lock them up despite having the full resources of the Federal Government at there disposal.

    Something to think about...
     
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  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, another anarchist sympathizer failed to vet his post. It's all unadulterated bull crap. You just bought into a bunch of lies by Bundy.

    There are no legally recognized inherited grazing rights, preemptive rights, special rights, or grandfathered public-domain land-use rights held by the Bundy family or Bundy's ancestors.[43] Bundy lost his special-rights arguments in the United States v. Bundy cases.[2] Bundy had only base property and normal AUM grazing-allotment permits, like the permits of thousands of other ranchers throughout the western United States. The court found that Bundy and his father actually first began grazing their cattle on the Bunkerville Allotment in 1954 and used it for several years. They paid for cattle grazing again from 1973 until 1993, when Bundy paid the last fees for his final grazing application for the period from December 1, 1992, through February 28, 1993. On January 24, 1994, the Bureau of Land Management delivered a Proposed Decision Order to Remove and Demand for Payment to Bundy by placing it on the dashboard of Bundy's vehicle while he was in the vehicle. BLM officials allege that Bundy became agitated, descended from his truck and accused the BLM of harassing him. He then returned to his truck, threw the proposed order out of the window and drove away. One of Bundy's sons then picked up the document, tore it to pieces and threw it on the ground. On February 17, 1994, the BLM issued a final decision canceling Bundy's range-grazing permit. Bundy subsequently informed the BLM in several administrative notices that he intended to graze cattle "pursuant to my vested grazing rights". Bundy failed to demonstrate the existence of any such special rights when given an opportunity to do so in court.[2]

    IMO: Federal law enforcement officers should have killed the scumbags aiming rifles at federal employees.

     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  14. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  15. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Rueters has the same story.
    Several other news outlets did too.

    Killing goes two ways in situations like that. BLM likely would have incinerated the Bundys like Waco had militia not been there.
    And would have lost the Bundy ranch battle quickly and started a a war had they done anything besides wisely tuck tail and run "fearing for their lives " as agent after agent sobbing like children testified in court.
     
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  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Have it your way. Show your support for scumbags who aimed rifles at BLM employees while claiming religion. Tim McVeigh had his supporters too.
     
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  17. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    Your comparing support for a Ranching Familly who’s harmed no one with support for a Mass Murderer? Who’s got the facepalm meme?
     
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  18. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am amazed that anyone would think that a war would have started if Obama had the balls to enforce the law.

    Those so-called "militia" would have run like scared rabbits after one shot was fired.

    And even if they had stood their ground and all been killed, nobody but Alex Jones and a few of his looney followers would have been upset.
     
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  19. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    personally, they should have shot everyone of them pointing a gun at them. then we wouldn't even need for this silly thread to begin with.

    but there will always be few radicals who would think of the Bundy's as martyrs who they could hero worship.
     
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  20. CouveShooter

    CouveShooter Active Member

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    I’m amazed that those members who support the Bundy’s seem to be happy there was no bloodshed while several members backing the Fed’s seem to wish there had been a massive gun fight?

    1. NO ONE DIED... Thank God
    2. The Courts have spoken

    It’s over gentlemen... and it ended peacefully. Despite our differences, decent human being should all agree that’s a GOOD THING.

    Now SMILE and go enjoy those new toys... I’ll be taking the 9 year old to the gun club tomorrow! Not sure if he’s more impressed by his AR or by all the attention he gets from the more senior club members?

    God Bless

    CS
     
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