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Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by PeteZaHut, Jan 16, 2011.
What are the arguments for each?
buckshot loses almost all energy after penetrating several walls. not as liekly to injre neighbors from errant shots if forced to use it. especially 2 3/4 shells. slugs tend to waaay over penetrate. i do keep a couple handy in the buttstock shell holders.
this is what i use for home defense
my 590A1 doesnt have sights just a bead my bayonet is a M7.
walmart had em on sale im not tied to any brand name
bb shot works better in shortrange home defense
Remington 12 Ga Ultimate Home Defense 2 3/4" Shell 1 1/4 OZ Lead Size BB
Remington 12 Ga Ultimate Home Defense 2 3/4" Shell 1 1/4 OZ Lead Size BB 10/Box Ammunition Md: RW12SHDB, Remington Hevi-Density Home Defense LG Outdoors
I realize this really rains on the ninja parade, but people are really easy to stop. I have seen a deer run a quarter mile with three slugs, but people - no. They have the most complex nervous system. While the Army did have to go back to the 45 Colt from the 38 Special to stop drugged Maori warriors in the Phillipines over a hundred years ago, buckshot is more than sufficient. I really think John's BB suggestion sounds good to be honest. Any shot gives you some cushion for a small aiming error as compared to slugs as well, and won't penetrate houses.
go with shot. no reason to risk more over-penetration
If you want a single projectile, get a carbine--a shotgun is not a rifle. A carbine has better range, better accuracy, AND greater penetration.
On the other hand, the shotgun is pretty much recognized as the best choice for home defense. The choice of shot is largely dependent on the physical structure you and who else is there live in.
If you share the building with others--family, roommates, neighbors--bird shot is better, less penetration (Rob Pincus recommends 7 1/2, JonM uses BB). If you live in a single dwelling without close neighbors, buckshot is a better choice (I use #1 buckshot ). Either shot is reported to cause severe wounding!
Pete, after JD had to close the last thread about body armor penetration I am getting some REALLY big red flags about you. ISTAT.
Everyone is going to have something different, depending on their preferences and immediate environment. My HD shotgun holds 6 rounds, and my decision has been to escalate the firepower severity as it cycles. I figure if God forbid there was ever a legitimate reason to fire off my SG several times, by that point I'd want a heavy hitter.
2rds heavy birdshot (#4-6)
2rds PDX1 ninja load (1oz slug w/ some buckshot)
Unless you live in an isolated area and are prone to aggressive bear or bigfoot encounters, I would highly discourage having a slug among the first few rounds you chamber.
well...after hearing it from people involved in incidents...you want to make sure the round doesnt actually hurt anyone in your home unless it KILLS the bad guy....
in NY its pretty popular that if you just wound to stop a BG, then you werent in enough danger to use potentially lethal force...therefore you get arrested for shooting someone and the BG walks free.... -.-
if thats a concern use only ammo labeled as self defense critical defense etc. keep the boxes handy.
home defense shotgun ammo
heavy birdshot, BB, and bayonet. that'll do it,
...and then some dude went and tested it all. Head to The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1 he tests birdshot, buck, and slugs through sheet rock. Make up your own mind. Because I can't make up my mind I got the glock ready to rock with 9mm +p copper hollowpoints, the 870 with Winchester military buck and a Brenekke slug sitting on the nightstand. It's all totally useless considering I'm defenseless in the People's Republic of China at the moment.
wELL, i HAVEN'T HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, BUT i'VE READ THAT A FINE BIRDSHOT LOAD WOULD BE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST FOR HOME DEFENSE. 'SCUS THE CAPS. uNINTENDED. JD45
buckshots. my favorite are the fiocchi 12 gauge #00 buckshot low recoil. they have a lighter recoil and you get 10 in a pack (instead of 5) for usually $5 or a little more. these would be great for home defense. it got a nice pattern and enough stopping power but will not over-penetrate.
I should use smaller shot,but I like the big stuff
i know the post im quoting is a few months old but i want to address this. light birdshot is NOT i repeat NOT a good load for defense. the smallest shot that makes a decent load for defense inside the home is BB shot. dick cheney former VP of the USA shot his buddy in the face at very close range with birdshot. the guy he shot was in no real danger as the pellets missed his eyes and did not penetrate far into softer parts.
please dont use birdshot for self defense.
the max range for birdshot being effect is just inches from the muzzle. what your looking for is weight of the individual pellet not weight of the over all load. buckshot is the optimal load for home defense but the problems with the heavy shot overpenetrating are pretty large.
I've come across two sources, one of which is "The Best Defense" (Michael Bane, et al), that did dry wall penetration tests. The results were very surprising in some instances.
Heavy and slow is not good for over-penetration. Buckshot, deer slugs, .45 ACP, all over-penetrated by 3 or 4 walls (6 to 8 sheets or more). #8 birdshot and one other round had the least penetration of the rounds tested, typically penetrating less than 3 sheets of drywall (one room) and appearing to loose effectiveness after just 1 or 2 sheets.
The other round was... hold on to your hats... the .223. Something about its ballistics makes it loose energy very quickly going through drywall.
Who woulda thunk it.
This is a total misconception. Over the years I have heard of several people who have lost their lives to bird shot a ranges up to thirty yards. A few years ago a young man in this area lost his leg to a load of #6 shot from a 410 at twenty yards. In home defense we are talking feet not yards so #6 shot is more than adequate to get the job done without engendering your family members who might be in other rooms or your neighbors. Bigger in not always better. At times it is a poor choice when all factors are taken into consideration. Unless an intruder was wearing a vest bird shot is more than adequate to take him out within the confines of ones home.
im not saying its not dangerous and cant inflict wounds or kill. i equate it with using 22lr as a pistol SD round. its just not a good choice for a shotgun load for SD purposes.
Do you make this statement on first hand experience and testing or is it pure conjecture based on the input or others? If you care to research the literature you will find that more people are killed each year by the lowly 22 than any other caliber. I have been shooting for over 60 years and my experiences prove to me to be perfectly comfortable using bird shot or a 22 for home defense. Years ago I faced a home invader with a 22 and I am here and he is not. When in practice as a psychologist I worked with two individuals who accidentally took a family members life firing a weapon in their homes when facing an intruder. If they hadn’t listened to the so called experts and not had buckshot in their guns their loved ones would still be alive today. After years of therapy neither of them ever fully forgave themselves for what had happened.
your aweful touchy.
i did not say you couldnt use a 22 or birdshot. i said it was not a good choice as it lacks reliable penetration at typical sd ranges. if you want to stake your life on sub-par gear that is totally your business but giving that type of advice to others is irresponsible.
if ALL i had at hand was a 22 or birdshot i would use it no doubt.
if you have read other topics ive posted about you will see me qouting stats on 22lr deaths in the US. the problem with 22lr and birdshot is how long most deaths occur between the shooting and expiration.
when choosing SD firearms and ammunition you cant base the decision off of out of the norm results.
buckshot and slugs are heavier shot than BB shot. BB is the absolute smallest for RELIABLE penetration.
when i was younger the guy living on the property next to us was accidentally shot while bird hunting with birdshot from 100yds away. unknown to him a piece of shot was missed by the docs. he died 1.5 years later when the pellet migrated to his heart. does that make birdshot a good defense load?? it meets your criteria of causing death.
im glad you successfully defended yourself with a sub par caliber but that does not equate with being a good defensive round.
by your logic the 357 magnum is a terrible round for self defense since there are numerous cases of people surving being shot by it.
i am former military police joined for the first gulf war seen plenty of gunshot wounds and people defending themselves with firearms across the gamut. the heavier the bullet or shot the more successful the defensive situation turned out.
there is a difference between doing what you have to do with whatever is at hand and making a concious decision in firearm choice in preparation.