Brass Fetcher "Goes There....."

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by KalashnikovJosh, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Brass Fetcher,a website devoted to scientific,repeatable and reputable ballistic tests,went "there".

    Yep.

    Its .45acp vs. 9x19 Parabellum time again!

    BUT before anyone gets their knickers in a twist,the now oft-repeated internet caveat should be mentioned:

    Whats more important then caliber is your ability with your particular gun.

    With handguns chambered in service cartridges of all calibers from .32acp (YES,.32acp was used as a "service" cartridge,being prominently used in the Walther PP and PPK by police in Europe primarily in Germany; Patton even famously fired at a stuka with his colt pocket automatic chambered in it!) to 10mm,the most conclusive thing has been the anomalous performance recorded across the board when used against human adversaries.
    (As a side note,the .22lr was even used as a service cartridge by the Mossad- with some effectiveness,too.)


    According to one prominent web blogger on firearms,Stephen A. Camp:

    "If a 150 pound deer can be shot through the heart with a .30-06 180-gr. expanding bullet at 2700 ft/sec and keep moving, should we expect that a 200 pound human hit with a 180-gr. expanding forty-caliber bullet at 975 ft/sec to be instantly incapacitated?"

    [​IMG]

    You should not rely on your handgun caliber selection to even give you a slight advantage.
    You should rely on your ability to get good,repeat hits with whatever gun/caliber you choose.

    This post is strictly for informational purposes only,and not intended to ignite a flame war.

    Of particular importance,IMHO,are the "bone tests" of both of these calibers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  2. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I, for one, find myself more accurate with

    a .45 than a 9mm.

    But since 9mm ammo is cheaper,

    I can afford to attempt to compensate

    with more practice...;)

    However, in answer to Mr. Camp's questioning statement:

    Deer have a much higher muscle-mass ratio than humans.

    They exercise much more regularly, and lead a more

    spartan life overall. Combine that with instinctive response,

    and any hit to a deer's body which does not involve critical

    damage (i.e.-"instant kill" or paralysis) will generally involve

    a lot of running...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012

  3. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    To expound on Mr.Camps point- men in combat have been known to continue to fight even after suffering grievous bodily injury.
    The phenomena of the human animals' ability to continue to fight even after mortally wounded by even full house blasts of buckshot from a 12 gauge shotgun to high caliber rifle fire is well documented.
    Don't expect any typical service handgun caliber to be effective at immediate incapacitation unless the CNS is hit.
     
  4. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I think a test on bear penetration, incapacitation, and perhaps decapitation would be more relevant.
     
  5. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    You'd probably be better off with a .454 Casull or something dude.Thats far from what I'd call a service type cartridge,but hey- whatever floats your boat.
     
  6. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I'm just saying that bears would be more realistic than ballistic jelly, even with bones in the jelly. Not to mention that the U.S. currently runs a surplus of bears.
     
  7. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Dude,what is up with you and bears?

    Are you a bear hunter or something?
     
  8. Josh1158

    Josh1158 New Member

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    Lol he hates em. Its almost a ftf runnin gag
     
  9. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    I just have to ask- why?

    Did he get mauled by one or something?
     
  10. Josh1158

    Josh1158 New Member

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    No clue, maybe just cuz. I hate chipmunks because they mock me when I'm tree rat huntin.
     
  11. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    they stole his porridge :D
     
  12. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Poor little woodland creatures..............
     
  13. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    If you shove a pine tree up a bear's butt, does that make it a lolly bop? We need a funded study.
     
  14. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Damn dude,that must've been some good porridge,cause your *** hurt over bears big time.
     
  15. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    BY CNS I will assume you mean brain and spinal column. With that in mind please allow me to add some info.

    Unless you get a brain stem or high spinal column hit immediate incapacitation is an extremely unlikely event. A brain shot or anything below a cervical vertebra hit will normally not cause immediate incapacitation in most handgun calibers, and I stress the word "immediate". In fact, with the majority of handgun calibers and commonly used bullet design calvarium penetration is not at all a sure thing. Strike angle and the area of the skull as well as caliber and projectile design are huge factors in determining whether your shot will even penetrate to the brain.

    While odds of incapacitation vary with organ system and degree of organ destruction, no other shot with a common handgun caliber will give you instant incapacitation. That includes totally destroying the heart since the brain will still have enough oxygenated blood to function at a normal level for at least 30 seconds.

    In other words, if you want a shot that will totally incapacitate the bad guy right this second your aim point from straight on is a little bit larger than the Surgeon General's warning side of a pack of Marlboro Light 100's. Now all you need is a good knowledge of skeletal anatomy, a very steady hand, and a bullet that will penetrate enough to get there.
     
  16. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    the general concensus is that a really big bear had forced relations with Gello when he was but a cub himself.:eek:;)

    There is no other explanation of such deep seated hatred. :D
     
  17. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Winnie the pooh got Gello's honey pot you say?
     
  18. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    took his porridge too :p
     
  19. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    LMAO!!!!


    EXACTLY!!

    Silly bear dun violated Gelos Hunny pot...
    [​IMG]

    This what most of us think of when we think of Pooh bear....

    [​IMG]

    THIS is what Gello sees in his minds eye...
    [​IMG]

    and in Gellos dreams....
    [​IMG]
     
  20. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Wow.
    I'm sticking to my 12 gauge for home defense lol.

    As for handguns- I'm pulling the trigger till they stop.

    BTW- you guys are just sick and wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012