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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yes, my blood pressure is up too. But know your enemy. A statement from the brady campaign has me perplexed...im trying to figure out exactly what they're trying to pass off as information, but i'm legitimately having trouble as they're using the typical loose ended talk that can go many ways.

Their talking point is that 40% of guns sold in this country are done so with no background checks at all...i just don't understand what they're talking about and how they claim to come to that number.

Also, they keep talking about laws that "save lives" but give no examples of any such laws that I can find.

Anyone know a little more about all of this than I?

Edit: IT seems as though that 40% they're talking about is referring to face-to-face sales....but what I can't figure out (and maybe its because it doesnt exist) is the information they're using to "arrive" at that 40% mark...it seems made up and incredibly inflated.
 

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What they want to stop are the guns sold at the gun shows. They complain that at the gun shows you don't fill out the same paper work or have the backround checking.
 

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Yes, my blood pressure is up too. But know your enemy. A statement from the brady campaign has me perplexed...im trying to figure out exactly what they're trying to pass off as information, but i'm legitimately having trouble as they're using the typical loose ended talk that can go many ways.

Their talking point is that 40% of guns sold in this country are done so with no background checks at all...i just don't understand what they're talking about and how they claim to come to that number.

Also, they keep talking about laws that "save lives" but give no examples of any such laws that I can find.

Anyone know a little more about all of this than I?

Edit: IT seems as though that 40% they're talking about is referring to face-to-face sales....but what I can't figure out (and maybe its because it doesnt exist) is the information they're using to "arrive" at that 40% mark...it seems made up and incredibly inflated.
they are lying! ;)

What they want to stop are the guns sold at the gun shows. They complain that at the gun shows you don't fill out the same paper work or have the backround checking.
no, what they want to stop is all gun sales! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So then there are some gun show "loop holes" ? This is what im after...not to prove them right, but to seek out where they're manipulating their information to arrive at that magic number of 40%.

Essentially what they're doing is making it sound like every last gun sold in that 40% is sold to a criminal - guilty until proven innocent...

Now, forgive me if this makes me seem stupid for now knowing the answer...but I thought all firearms sold by a dealer had to have the proper paperwork? Every gun i've ever purchased - online, at a shop, or a pawn shop, i've had to fill out the background check and go through the waiting period...so...where are they getting their information that says people are buying guns w/ no background checks from established gun dealers?
 

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Every gun show I've been to, you still fill out a 4473. As for face-to-face sales, since there are only two parties involved and no paperwork, it's impossible to arrive at a number. That 40% number they're throwing out is a WAG.
 

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PrimePorkchop said:
So then there are some gun show "loop holes" ? This is what im after...not to prove them right, but to seek out where they're manipulating their information to arrive at that magic number of 40%.

Essentially what they're doing is making it sound like every last gun sold in that 40% is sold to a criminal - guilty until proven innocent...

Now, forgive me if this makes me seem stupid for now knowing the answer...but I thought all firearms sold by a dealer had to have the proper paperwork? Every gun i've ever purchased - online, at a shop, or a pawn shop, i've had to fill out the background check and go through the waiting period...so...where are they getting their information that says people are buying guns w/ no background checks from established gun dealers?
In many states it is legal to buy a gun from an individual, non-FFL holder, with no paperwork. A bill of sale is a good idea, but not legally required in such "face to face" transactions. These exchanges occur routinely at gun shows here in WI.

Licensed dealers have to run the Federal, and state where required, background checks, even at gun shows. In WI the 48 hour waiting period must be adhered to as well. Failure to follow rules on ALL transactions will cost a dealer their FFL.
 

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I'm sure they have some crazy disclaimer in there saying something like "Data taken in a poll of 500 Democrats". It's kind of like when you see a sign in a restaurant "Voted The Best Pizza in Florida". Voted by who? Did they ask all the employees of the restaurant to vote? Maybe they checked with 500 prison inmates convicted of a gun related crime and asked them if they bought their gun legally through a dealer or in an alley on the street and 40% of them admitted to buying it illegally in trade for a reduced sentence. This is the internet days. I can find data on line saying Rock Hudson was straight, Hitler is alive and Obama is American if I look hard enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
KeysKelly said:
I'm sure they have some crazy disclaimer in there saying something like "Data taken in a poll of 500 Democrats". It's kind of like when you see a sign in a restaurant "Voted The Best Pizza in Florida". Voted by who? Did they ask all the employees of the restaurant to vote? Maybe they checked with 500 prison inmates convicted of a gun related crime and asked them if they bought their gun legally through a dealer or in an alley on the street and 40% of them admitted to buying it illegally in trade for a reduced sentence. This is the internet days. I can find data on line saying Rock Hudson was straight, Hitler is alive and Obama is American if I look hard enough.
I don't disagree with you but I'm just trying to find out a little more info than an educated guess :)

I pride myself in my online research abilities... Yet I cannot find anything yet to substantiate this claim... Not that I believe it to be true but somewhere out there is a chunk of data that has been twisted and maimed to look like the information they're passing off as fact ... I have to find THAT piece of info
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Provided it actually exists and they're not just conjuring it out of thin air... The search for Bigfoot begins... Maybe history channel will give us our own show
 

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I don't disagree with you but I'm just trying to find out a little more info than an educated guess :)

I pride myself in my online research abilities... Yet I cannot find anything yet to substantiate this claim... Not that I believe it to be true but somewhere out there is a chunk of data that has been twisted and maimed to look like the information they're passing off as fact ... I have to find THAT piece of info
...And you won't, it's made up...second cousin to Harvey the Rabbit, an apparition. The 'polls and surveys' they quote incessantly have been exposed to be fraudulent either by design or by their fictional nature alone. Creators of some of their polls have come out and admitted they designed some of them with a certain biased outcome in mind. Even the 'sources' they list are by no means credible or relevant. If I were to go to Boston and ask people how they feel about the Yankees, I'd get an answer that I'D like to hear but it'd be far from being an accurate overall assessment.

The BC has been losing traction for years as even some of their own supporters know not to trust liars. From what I can gather, the 'loophole' they rant about is bogus, procedures are the same at a show as they are at a brick and mortar shop. It's true, some of the gun show salesmen are less than honest and often times do sell guns to people without following procedure whether is be turning a blind eye or knowingly allowing a straw sale.

The long and short of it...They're morons. Their state by state gun law ranking system, another horn they love to blow...(heh heh, blow...) contradicts the very point they are trying to make. Their 'best states' have the highest rates of violent crime...(they forgot to include that I guess) while the 'worst states' have low violent crime rates. Unless you're just looking for a cheap laugh, don't put ANY stock into what they say. They prey on the fears and insecurities of people who they hope stay woefully ignorant of how things work out here in reality...:cool:
 

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i would say they are using face to face sales as generally no paperwork is needed. if at a gun show even face to face sales have to have a background check. there is NO GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE. something the lefties made up.. the percentage they are saying is probly a guess. or a rigged poll.
 

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I don't disagree with you but I'm just trying to find out a little more info than an educated guess :)

I pride myself in my online research abilities... Yet I cannot find anything yet to substantiate this claim... Not that I believe it to be true but somewhere out there is a chunk of data that has been twisted and maimed to look like the information they're passing off as fact ... I have to find THAT piece of info
Since there are no records of face-to-face sales it is impossible to determine how many take place per year across the country. Ergo, it is impossible to determine the percentage of face-to-face sales versus overall sales. That 40% number has to be made up. It might accidentally be correct, but there is no way to verify whether it is or isn't.
 

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In many states it is legal to buy a gun from an individual, non-FFL holder, with no paperwork. A bill of sale is a good idea, but not legally required in such "face to face" transactions. These exchanges occur routinely at gun shows here in WI.

Licensed dealers have to run the Federal, and state where required, background checks, even at gun shows. In WI the 48 hour waiting period must be adhered to as well. Failure to follow rules on ALL transactions will cost a dealer their FFL.
Idaho is that way. Just pick up the newspaper and take cash, no paper work. A lot of the adds say no hispanics.
 

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i would say they are using face to face sales as generally no paperwork is needed. if at a gun show even face to face sales have to have a background check. there is NO GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE. something the lefties made up.. the percentage they are saying is probly a guess. or a rigged poll.
They call it a "loop hole" but they let collectors set up booths at the gun shows and no paper work takes place with them. The lefties get all bent out of shape about the no paper work thing. In Idaho what people don't understand is the paper work stops at the gun store. They are only required to file the paper work on the sale at the gun store. They don't send it in to a Federal Office somewhere.
 

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It is real simple! Any statistics the Brady Foundation or the present administration provides, you can bet it is lent toward the anti-gun agenda.
So moral of the story any statistics the come up with is untruthful and doesn't even deserve thought! Kind of like turning the TV off when you do not want to listen to something or watch the show that you know is B---S---. That is how I view them!
Keep in contact with your Senators since tommorrow Hillery and the Wizard of Oz will be finalizing the signing of the UN Small Arms Weapon Treaty. The Senators are our saving grace to vote NO! and save our Second Amendment Rights. Do not let passivness on their part go! Obviouly be stern regarding your vote!:)

03
 

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Am I the only one who's noticed Sarah almost constantly has a sexually

frustrated look on her face, and a crazed gleam in her eye?

You can't expect these people to be reasonable. And unless we

can pursue, and receive, damages for false claims, they are always

going to be making up crazy lies for the public.



What we all need to do:

Sit back, take a deep breath.

Get out the really nice .22LRs, and pick up some ammo.

Take some new folks shooting.



The antis have lies and hysteria : WE have reality and

self-empowerment.


Why should we fight this battle on their ground?
 
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