BlueZs big review of commercial Ammo in AR15s!

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by bluez, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have been using a lot of the Wolf Gold for a couple of years now. It has proven very accurate at 100, 200, and 300 yards with all my AR's. The 1-9 twists do best. Followed by 1-8 and 1-7. The only 1-7 I have now is an 18" fluted barrel one. But this sucker shoots the Gold at 200 almost as tight as the other two twists. Fascinates me.
     
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  2. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hey bluez, are their any trials like yours on 7.62X39 Russian ammo that you know of.
    I want to buy some newer 7.62x39 for my new AR upper. Not certain which of them to buy.
     
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  3. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Golden Tiger has an excellent rep in 7.62x39.. But any russian manufactuere should be fine IMO.. But since its an AR upper and not an AK upper I strongly recommend you upgrade firing pin to this:
    https://www.redxarms.com/product-p/5061.htm
     
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  4. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Got two in yesterday from DeltaTeam Tactical. Got to get one in before next week. Rain the rest of the week here they are predicting.
     
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  5. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    bump .. since I think its an important topic.

    In a way the real "weapon" is the ammo and the rifle is just the "thing that makes it go".

    Dont shoot as much as I used to.. am down to about 3000-4000 rds of rifle ammo per year.. this is due to a lot of international travel for work.
    But still am at about 50,000-60,000 rds in past 5 years.

    Shoot 1000 rds of Wolf Gold in a day earlier this year... ( no "mag dumps,... but proper "fighting lanes", an exhausting way of shooting that will show you the limits of your fitness..) . and 1000 round of Wolf military Classic 62 in another day earlier this year. Both alternating a Sig516 (with AimPoint PRO) and a BCM w/ LW cut barrel (w/ Eotech 512) to minimize heat builtup between drills.
    Shot 1000 rds of Wolf Gold thru a 14.5 inch Troy rifle w/ TRS-25 optic.. my economy setup.
    Another day did 1000 rds of Golden Tiger 56gr (the hard primer stuff ) through Sig 516 (with upgraded Red-X firing pin for hard primers)

    No malfunctions due to ammo with any of these combinations (had a couple malfunctions, double feeds, due to magazine, it was an older HK magazine.. not the steel kind but the plastic HK kind that they sell kinda cheap and a quite a few malfucntions due to worn out buffer spring on my Sig516.. it was original and had 10,000-12,000 rds thru it at that point sp was clearly due for replacement.. I replaced it with a newer buffer spring I fished from my stash.)

    PS: When you buy Wolf Steel Ammo you want the stuff made at Barnaul.. not Tula (TCW). Its one penny more per round but in my experience that extra penny goes a long way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  6. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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  7. Bobbers

    Bobbers Member

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    He often has product that comes in and out of stock depending on what's in production. As soon as you think "it's gone" it pops back up.
     
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  8. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He has a ton of it on his website today. However, there has been some problems with the GT hard primers. In AR's, some have had to get an improved firing pin PLUS, a heavier hammer spring. Lot of guys with AR usage flat stopped buying the GT.
    Now, in an SKS or AK there seems to be no problems
     
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  9. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the 7.62X39 Wolf 123 gr fmj & HP have been very reliable in my Mini 30 and Ruger Ranch. PPU 123 gr SP is MOA in the Ranch and 1.5-2 MOA in the Mini. Ranch hates Silver Bear but the Mini likes it. Neither liked Red Army Standard or Tula.
    I use the Wolf 62 grain fmj and HP in 5.56X45. The slightly slower impulse gives the steel more time to shrink. I tried some Tula in 5.56 and 7.62 and it was not good. Primers were not set at a consistent depth.
    Bluez you are right about PMC Bronze being light. Last batch barely functions my Mini 14 and it is known to launch empty casings. I usually have to put up a screen to keep the cases from hitting other shooters. I was beginning to wonder if I had a problem. The MVP bolt does not complain.
     
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  10. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    OOL: The current batches of GT, at least in 223, all have "normal" AR primers ( normal by russian standards that is.. so still slightly hard by US standards.. but not so that a "normal" milspec AR will have issues.. one where the hammer spring has been replaced w/ a lighter one, or a lighter aftermarket trigger assembly, however, might get light strikes.. but that goes for all russian ammo)

    The only truly hard .223 batches were sold in summer of 2016 and are no longer sold by any vendor.

    In this thread Posts 12,15 and 16 discuss GT223, 56gr FMJBT and post # 16 includes my final conclusion based on approx 4000 rounds of the Summer 2016 "hard" batch, expended thru various rifles with various firing pin and hammer spring combinations. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  11. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Bluez, you did a great job an put out a lot of useful information. Thank you.
     
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  12. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the kind words Sir.
    I just want my fellow Americans to be as prepared and equipped as possible. :)
     
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  13. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I meant to add 7.62x39 as the problem with harder primers.
     
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  14. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Update:

    Recent reports on the newer batches of Wolf Gold suggest it might not be loaded as hot anymore.
    Not necessarily loaded too light.. but definitely not as its previous level.

    I have not yet shot these new batches as I dont want to risk buying more Wolf Gold if its not what I expect (I tend to buy in bulk, when buying 3 cases I dont want to be disappointed)

    By the end of the year I might get a small amount of the new batches and check ejection patterns on my standard AR.
    (I know that not as "cool" or precise as chronographs but it is a easy way to see measure how hot they are loaded)
    So I am downgrading the Wolf Gold a bit for now in my recommendations and buying maybe Wolf Military Classic in 62gr or PPU 55gr or whichever good deal I can find.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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  15. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Very nice. I don’t think steel cased ammo is practical as a money saver in .223/556. Only to study and compare. Brass com bloc ammo is priced very close. If you can afford so much ammo to begin with, the difference to you is immaterial. Dealing with the jams and extra dirt breaks it even, IMO.

    The com bloc steel would have cycled even worse if it wasn’t relatively hot loaded.
     
  16. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wolf steel case ammo was costing 2/3 of the cheapest brass which is a significant difference.
     
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  17. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    This.

    For some people shooting enough to become/stay proficient may not even be possible at brass prices.
    Now we all know brass is better for reliability in these rifles.. but the vast majority of ARs can handle the steel just fine.
    A bang is a bang.

    I shot at least 10,000 rounds of Wolf Military Classic 62 gr though my rifles in the last couple of years without a single malfunction (!!).
    Admittedly those were very good and/or tolerant rifles (LWRC M6A2 and Sig516) ... but still.

    The Golden Tiger doesnt have as good a track record but still easily good enough for training.

    Some of the steel (Tula) are of low quality on top of being steel.. and who knows maybe Tula will change/improve at some point but right now i am not buying it.

    But the better Steel case such as the Wolf Military Classic in 62gr has shown for me no difference at all in reliability compared to brass.
    Given that this round is also available in HP it might even a legit SHTF carry round.
    If money was no object I would carry only Mk 318 SOST ammo..

    But for every single person on here money is a factor, a big one if you must shoot on your own dime enough to be truly proficient.

    PS: My total of Ammo shot thru AR15s, since the original post is approx 40,000 to 60,000 rds
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  18. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I dont shoot anywhere near what you are shooting in 5.56 but I do stock Wolf 62 grain HP for emergencies. I have never had a problem with it. I do not stock 55 grain steel.
    We do shoot a lot of 22lr mostly in S&W 15-22's. Until lately we were going through 2-3 bricks a month. Also shoot some 9mm in an AR9 braced pistol. 15-22, AR9 and AR15 have all the controls in the same place. Wife cant hold up the AR15 but does well with the AR9 pistol. All have red dots. Looking for a private lower or may have to do an 80%.
     
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  19. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I wonder if the Wolf Military Classic 62 gr HP isnt something like "the poor man's Mk318 SOST"

    I seen it penetrate a quarter inch (or was it 3/8ths?) of mild steel like it was nothing with a clean cut whole that looked like a small wadcutter thru paper.
    I have also seen it to "wound" damage to trees that did not seem trivial.

    Its not very scientific but my gut tells me its a fantastic round for the price.
    Also I do know its more accurate than Lake City M855 Green Tip.

    Since Brown Bear 62gr HP and Silver Bear 62gr HP are the same ammo except with different coatings these comments also apply to them.

    I am not saying its better than XTac 55gr brass or Federal White Box.. But those two are also a lot more expensive.

    For the price that Barnaul made 62gr steel in HP is almost without competition..

    (when I dont see the HP for sale I often buy the FMJ with an eye toward training as well. They also make them in SP which I have a case of)

    PS: Obviously it does not perform like a Mk318 SOST... but my early remark referred to that its in comparison to other rounds in its class, extra penetration w/o sacrificing accuracy and expected good effects on target. a Mk318 SOST if of course much preferable... but it also costs 3-4 times as much per round... which makes staking it deep for a rainy day cost prohibitive.
     
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  20. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Bump: the Wolf Gold 55gr seems to have lots some of the "hotness" of its loading lately based on reports.. not sure how true.. but it would be consistent with recent trends in the ammo world.
     
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