Big Thunder II Vs. Fenrir: The 1911 .460 Rowland Build Off

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by Dillinger, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Okay, after being first introduced too, and then bullied by, canebrake on this issue, I have decided that it is time to get it started. :rolleyes:

    Today I ordered this kit from Clark Custom Guns. The end result will be a 1911 with the ability to throw a .45 caliber round at about 1300fps-1400fps. A standard .45 ACP +P round leaves a 5" barrel at about 900fps to 915fps - so obviously this is a huge step up and will definitely result in high torque and increased recoil.

    So, here is the platform. It's a 2003 Kimber Custom Target II that I carried and shot extensively for almost 3 years. Existing features include a custom trigger job, night sights and I bought the same grips that S/A put on their initial offering of the "Operator" model. The weapon has no problems, but it got relegated to the back of the safe after the addition of the Nighthawk's.

    The plan is to install the kit from CCG and then send the whole thing off to Robar to have them coat the outside with Roguard and the internals coated with NP-3.

    After that, I will dump the stupid adjustable night sights for a fixed three dot version like I have on all my other weapons.

    More to follow.....

    JD
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Cool. Please keep us in the loop.
     

  3. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    JD you ho; I guess the race is on!

    The Canebrake Fenrir 460 Rowland is in progress and will use my Colt XSE SS as the donor gun.

    [​IMG]

    I also have a Clark Custom Guns, .460 Rowland kit on order and will post my progress as things come together.

    The beauty of this conversion is that the 45 ACP can be fired using the same barrel as the 460 Roland.

    With the barrel extension incorporating the compensator, the results produce a recoil comparable to the 45 ACP!

    The target however sees a slight increase in energy release.

    .460 Rowland 200 gr 1450 fps 934 # ft
    .45 ACP Hornady 200 gr 900 fps 360 # ft
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2009
  4. McNabb11b

    McNabb11b New Member

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    This is great. Be sure to post pictures. This is subscription worthy.
     
  5. bobbyb13

    bobbyb13 New Member

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    My, MY, MY

    Cane has done went and called JD a HO. I am shocked, NOT.:D More pics and info please.
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The FENRIR/COLT .460 Rowland Project, The Real One

    I'm jackin' in. Don't need no stinkin' build site of my own, I'll just take up bandwidth here on JD's!

    Some background needs to be presented so all members can be up to date on this endeavor.

    You really need to go to this thread and get up to speed!

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f57/44-magnum-do-they-9901/index2.html

    Now you see how the 460 Rowland project took flower.

    In this thread you will clearly see that the 'orange furry one' tried to take credit for this epic crusade.

    Starting with post # 20 where I psyched him into thinking I was done. Listen to his rambling in #21!

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/ten-manliest-firearms-9632/

    I’ll follow-up with the FENRIR/Colt 460 Rowland build after I let the 'furry one' respond!

    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    *shaking fist* :mad:

    Damn you, you crazy belly crawler! What the hell are you on about now?!

    I think that Bourbon and sunshine is clearly going to your dome! :rolleyes:

    I didn't even want to build this project, but you had to come along and push me along, chasing me around the 1911 forums taunting me with this Holy Grail project. It's your fault that I am winning this battle, you silly reptile, you brought this down upon yourself.

    In some crazy attempt to get an upper hand, you fooled me with a picture of your compensated 1911 ( who compensates a stock 1911 anyways ) - of which I gave you the credit for winning and wanted a range report.

    But alas.... as no one else was manning up and putting a .44 Magnum Powered 1911 in the Review Thread, I took it upon myself and ordered up my kit from CCG.

    That kit will be here next week and the pictures will tell the tale...

    Orange Furry One.... Out!
     
  8. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The FENRIR/COLT .460 Rowland 1911 Project, The Real One $686.95

    Told ya! I love it when his orange fur starts to fly. [​IMG]

    Here's the Canebrake donor gun;

    Colt Government SS Model O1070XSE
    Price: $650.00 (used <100/rds I know owner & gun)

    [​IMG]

    The entire gun is stainless steel in a mixture of polished flats and brushed accent areas.
    The XSE comes with:
    Single action
    Combat hammer
    Aluminum 3 hole adjustable travel trigger
    Fixed Colt/Novak white dot carry sights
    New roll marking and enhanced tolerances
    Two 8 round magazines
    Front and rear slide serrations
    Double diamond rosewood grips
    Colt beavertail grip safety
    Extended ambi thumb safety
    Composite MSH​

    I purchased an additional mag, a Wilson Combat ETM THE WILSON COMBAT® ELITE TACTICAL MAGAZINE
    Price: $36.95
    THE WILSON COMBAT® ELITE TACTICAL MAGAZINE

    [​IMG]

    I have a weakness for new technology and Bill Wilson has upped the ante with his new ETM offerings.
    The ETM started with a blank sheet of paper and 30+ years of 1911 and 1911 magazine experience. The ETM is no re-design of a 7 round magazine which has been reconfigured for 8 round capacity; it’s a totally NEW product designed from the ground-up as a premium 8 round tactical magazine. The ETM has the strongest magazine tube yet developed, virtually eliminating feed lip cracking, tube spread and cracking, and general fatigue.

    The dollar amount in the upper right of this post is the running total of my build and will update for each post.

    Now if you will excuse me, I've got to go rile up the furry one!

    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  9. bobbyb13

    bobbyb13 New Member

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    Well J.D.?

    I believe you are in the batters box. Care to step up to the plate? Completion date maybe?
     
  10. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well, while cane is off on another of his sun and malaria induced rants I will stick to the facts at hand. :cool:

    The folks from Clark Custom Guns have to build my specific "drop in" kit. Now, I don't know about the mighty Colt donor gun of the belly crawler over there, but for Kimber, they asked me what specific model I had and confirmed both the frame and slide were of steel construction, then read off a part inventory for my specific model that they are assembling and shipping to me, hopefully, by next week. It was $305 shipped to my door.

    Anyone following along and thinking of doing this same project should note that there are only a handful of 1911's that CCG will build parts for - those being without MIM parts and of steel construction. Both the Kimber and Cane's Colt qualify in their minds as being able to handle the increase in recoil and torque on the weapon.

    I should have photos up by next weekend if they do their part - but I can't assemble what I don't have I am afraid. :D

    After I get it assembled, it will be off to Robar to get the externals coated with RoGuard and the internals all coated with NP3 so that the thing will run forever. That alone will be 4 to 6 weeks, depending on backlog.

    I am thinking of doing a range test with the weapon before I send it off, to give you guys some idea of the capability of this new round - but we will see. I haven't decided what I want to test it ON yet, though I have some ideas.....*smirk*

    JD
     
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The FENRIR/COLT .460 Rowland 1911 Project, The Real One $722.45

    Hey orange furry one. I went to the gun show this weekend and picked up the first ammo for my 'most excellent' project. (Or was it a Valentines gift to turn your orange fur to green?)

    50 rounds of 185GR Nosler JHP (New) $35.50 from Georgia Arms, p/n G460A rated at 1550 fps muzzle velocity and a energy release of 925 #/ft.

    Here's a few photos of the comparison of the .460 Rowland 185GR JHP to the .45 ACP 230GR Ball, both are Georgia Arms new ammo.

    [​IMG]

    Using a (brand new) Colt barrel you can see the added length of the Rowland brass will not allow it to chamber. This is the built in safety function that prevents the gun from returning to battery in a factory .45 ACP barrel.

    .45 ACP chambered, Note the round in the chamber checker to the right, the head stamp is flush with the surface of the check tool.

    [​IMG]

    .460 Rowland in the same barrel. Note the round in the chamber checker to the right, the head stamp is above the surface of the check tool.

    [​IMG]

    I have loaded up both the Wilson Combat ETM mag and the factory Colt mags just to assure the fit and function. Everything went well and I expect no hardware problems from a feed standpoint when the tests begin.

    The dollar amount in the upper right of this post has been updated to include this ammo purchase, it is the running total of my build and will be updated for each post.

    As I wait for the CCG kit to arrive and while fondling the ammo I can only imagine what the orange furry one has in store for us??

    Now if you will excuse me, It's time to rile up the furry one!

    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Okay, I admit, my fur is turning a little green and my Rage-O-Meter is a tad bit higher than it was before I logged in.....

    H..O..W..E..V..E..R:

    185 grains? Really Cane? You weak, limp wristed old man. :cool:

    The WHOLE REASON for this build in the first place was to throw .44 Magnum type loads out of my 1911.

    That's 240 grains last time I checked, according to the inspiration behind this build in the first place. Mack Bolan's .44 Automag, Big Thunder.

    .....and baring that, 230 grains for this cartridge:

    GRAPH

    Now, I admit that it isn't as fast & flashy as Cane's little 185 grainer - but 230 grains hitting you in the chest with 917 foot pounds of energy behind it is definitely the equivilent to getting hit by a Nolan Ryan Fastball.​

    So, while Cane is out of the gates fast with his order and his fancy new ammo - I have a few tricks up my sleeve to swing things back in my favor....​

    *rubbing furry orange hands together in maniacal fashion*​

    JD​
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  13. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Nope, no limp wrist on the screen.......oh wait...something is showing up.....it's your post!


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Hey! Belly Crawler! I thought you might like to know that MY new, hand assembled .460 Rowland kit has officially left on the truck and is headed my way.

    Nah Nah Na Nah NAH!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The FENRIR/COLT .460 Rowland 1911 Project, The Real One $722.45

    The donor gun came in to my FFL on December 19th. I picked it up and went directly to the range. I did my typical 'new gun' break in which consists of loading all mags (2 factory 8, 1 WC ETM) with one round. I then fire the gun looking for slide lock and then load with two rounds. I look for feed, RTB, eject function and slide lock. I do this up to a full mag. I had zero problems and ran the gun for a total of 100rds.

    I was very pleased with the gun's accuracy and found the trigger about average in weight but with an excellent brake. Like braking a glass rod, crisp and not at all what I expected for a production gun.

    [​IMG]

    The gun went home for cleaning. This was my first look at the workings of the government XSE. You can imagine my surprise when I found the crappy machine work on the sear and the galling on the disconnector! Not sensing a need to improve the trigger pull I buffed them up with a 320 grit 3M sponge and reinstalled the ignition system.


    [​IMG]


    The running total of my build will not include the ammo used in this test.

    Anyone seen that orange furry tribble anywhere?

    [​IMG]

    Why does this man have a smile on his face???




    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well, it would appear the mail Gods have seen fit to make sure this race stays close. Even though my kit shipped last Thursday, as of mail today, still nothing. Hopefully next week. I have ammo showing up on tuesday, so that damn barrel kit better get here before Cane gets his... *shaking fist*

    JD
     
  17. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    The FENRIR/COLT .460 Rowland 1911 Project, The Real One $811.30

    I hate plastic! Everyone here knows that so I guess it isn't a surprise the first thing I did to my new XSE was to remove the composite mainspring housing!

    I know, I know, most modern era 1911 owners don't even know that their MSH is plastic but I did and it needed to go!

    I'm a high-ride grip freak and need my strong side hand up as high as possible on the grip. A flat, back-strap gave me the only reason I needed to change out the tupperware. My choice was a Smith & Alexander arched MSH with Mag-Guide. This arched MSH forces your hand up and into the beavertail, or in this case, the lousy duck bill grip safety on most current Colts. (It will go in the next Fenrir episode.) I have had experience with S&A when I replaced the same part on my Defender and their quality and customer service is top rate! If you have a question about installation, give Alan Smith a call, he will walk you through the process until it's working! A conversation with Alan is like a pistolsmith lesson. Barbra Smith is equally knowledgeable and both are a pleasure to deal with!

    [​IMG]

    Smith & Alexander - "The Mag-Guide People"

    I got the government model arched stainless w/mag-guide; Model # GMAS MG for $78.95.

    Installation is simple and the only extra step required is to install the spring and caps from the old MSH. (No sweat if you have a Wheeler Bench Block!)

    While I had the gun apart I replaced both the main spring and the sear spring.

    I went with the Wilson Combat Bullet Proof®Sear Spring P/N 417 for $6.95.

    Bullet Proof Sear Spring

    And I opted for the Wilson Combat Mainspring (Hammer Spring) "Reduced Power" P/N 27 for $2.95. This spring replacement results in a lighter trigger pull. The hammer is easier to cock by hand and while cycling which should improve ejection reliability.

    Mainspring (Hammer Spring) Reduced-Power

    Needing a pair of 'MagWell' cut grips I found these real stags from Argentina on ebay for $55.00. I will not include this purchase in my running total because I have a different set for Fenrir.

    [​IMG]

    I'm off to check my mail box to see if my CCG 460 Roland kit has come in yet. I should get my kit before the orange furry guy because I paid the Clark people to hold up his shipment! [​IMG]




    [​IMG] .460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
     
  18. Franciscomv

    Franciscomv New Member

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    I'm rooting for Cane on this one! Just because of the Argentinian grips. :D

    By the way, thanks for the mainspring housing advice. I need to replace the plastic flat one on my Colt with and arched metal one.
     
  19. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    No problem Franciscomv, S&A is the best IMHO!

    I hope you continue to root for me when I change the Argentinian Stags out for the Houges when the new pipe arrives. I think the gun looks much better with the Stags but I want a handful of gun to hold on to when I step up to the 460 Rowland.

    Not to worry, I'll take photos with the Stags after the barrel switch just for you! (and me, I really like the white grips on the SS frame! Must be the Patton in me! :cool:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  20. Franciscomv

    Franciscomv New Member

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