Big Problems ! ! ! C'mon AR Boys. . .

Discussion in 'Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion' started by diggsbakes, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    So I took my AR into a small shop for a (thought to be competent) smith to install a free float quad rail and replace the front sight and "re-weld" the flash hider back on when done (weld needed due to a 14.5" barrel).

    Keep in mind this gun was grouping around 3.5"-4" at 100 yds last time it was shot 2 weeks ago.

    I got the rifle back last week and took it out today. Starting @ 25 yds I had to crank the rear sight post all the way to the left @ 25 yds., in order to get a 3 shot group all in the red.

    Next I moved it out to 100 yards. I couldn't even put one on the paper!!! We had 3 other ARs with us so No, it wasn't the ammo, No, it wasn't the shooter (I shot deadly accurate out to 200 yds with a LWRC piston op. . . barrels of fun too!!!) and No, it wasn't the sights. The front post is attached to a fixed piece on the barrel and the rear was on the same "T" mark that its been on since day 1.

    It seems that SOMETHING GOT PUT BACK TOGETHER WRONG?!?:eek:

    The so-called gunsmith that worked on it offered to "take it home and see if (he) could get it lined back up". I declined and will be taking it to a man with about a decade more AR-15 experience than I have on Tuesday. He's no smith, but I trust him to at least trouble shoot it.

    IF ANYONE HAS HAD THIS PROBLEM OF A SIMILAR ONE, PLEASE SHARE! :confused: I'M WORRIED SICK!?!:(
     
  2. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Simplist answer is that the front sight is misaligned with the center bore of the barrel or is bent. Worst case is that the barrel was improperly installed or the FH was not properly centered.

    Either that or you are really out of practice from 2 weeks of not shooting...:D
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    my opinion it would be more due to the welding. welding heats metal past the melting point combining two metals and then cooling. this process if not done by a master welder will almost certainly warp the barrel enough to do what your experiencing.

    welding a gun barrel is never a good idea even when undertaken by experts. at most the flash hider should have been soldered on to comply with the idiotic gun laws.

    you will liekly have to rebarrel with a new one and either apply for a sbr license whiich would negate the need to permanently fix an extension or rebarrel with a legal length.

    front sight posts are pretty idiot proof once they are on and really only fit one way after the initial installation.
     
  4. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I'm with jon on this one. Welding throws a lot of heat into metal and without proper support the metal moves in response to the heat. I see this all the time when welding, even 1/4" thick steel.
     
  5. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Pictures might help.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Barrel may have been warped, FH may not be centered. there may be crud from welding at the muzzle. Would break rifle down, do the Mk1 eyeball check of bore for obvious dips and whoops. While you have barrel pulled, get a strong light, examine FH for evidence that bullet is brushing one side, or that there is crud at the end of the rifling. Sorry, but I think a rebarrel is in your future.
     
  7. Recon 173

    Recon 173 New Member

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    Jon and C3 have it right. Any heat to a barrel can warp them and throw off the accuracy. I would also check to make sure that the new suppressor is on at the right angle and not tilted too. Used to have guys with noise suppressors on their rifles in Nam who would, on occasion, get the suppressor back on slightly at an angle and throw off their bullets. That .223 round is much more sensitive than people understand.
     
  8. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    This has been a disaster since day 1. I was referred to this guy to install a float tube in place of hand guards. The following pic is what happened to my barrel nut. He claimed "I couldn't get it off". The second pic of course is my barrel. I told the guy I wanted it "permanently attached". He welded it.

    I'm gonna order another barrel and do the work myself, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't ask for his credentials and see if he is even qualified to do this type of work. :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. AusLach

    AusLach New Member

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    Well there's your problem!!! :eek:

    Sorry about your bad luck mate :mad:
     
  10. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    I hate to say it diggs but it looks like you fell victum to a "bubba". I'd suggest you start all over with a new barrel & barrel nut-and most importantly a REAL gunsmith.
     
  11. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Looks like he pulled out the wire welder and a ziz wheel!! I'm sorry for the damage he caused. Out of curiosity, have you confronted him about it? If that were me I would at least want him to pay for the parts if not the labor to correct his ignorant mistakes.
     
  12. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    Spitty,
    I confronted him about the rifle "not being right". This was yesterday. He asked to "take it home and see if (he) can get it shootin' straight." I told him "No thanks" as he'll never touch another gun of mine again.

    I guess if I re-barrel it, I can spend an extra $75-$100 on something I really want? :confused:
     
  13. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Yeah, that pretty much says it all right there.

    If you want to get a few bucks out of that old barrel let me know. I could use it for my self studies. :)
     
  14. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Just for ha ha's, you might wanna check the pin on your barrel extension and the notch on your upper. It's not hard to screw the centering notch up if someone just starts cranking on the barrel nut. Just a thought, maybe he owes you a new upper?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  15. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Tough break man...at least no one got hurt. If the guy held himself out to be a gunsmith and that is a regulated business in your state he would need a license. Either way you can really bust his stones for that shoddy work.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    that is a disaster. arc welding like that definately destroyed the barrel. at most it should have been braised on or soldered. there is NO excuse for cutting off the barrel nut. there are tools that make that a safe and easy job.

    im a noob welder learned the basics this summer and evn i can see thats about as stupid a thing to do to a barrel as can be done. thats a pretty good bead on there and the general rule is the depth of the melt pool is usually the same as the height of the bead from my severely limited welding experience.

    that barrel is definately toast :(
     
  17. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    You said it a complete disaster. I work outside of town during their business hours, so my wife picked up the mess. . . Imagine my surprise when I was handed a bag full of pieces from my first homemade AR. . .:(

    Yeah, I got a buddy that is an AR guru. The only reason he didn't do the work on this mess is because he was in AZ taking care of some rentals he owns. I also weld (pretty infrequently) in my trade and know the basics, but were just talking concrete type applications where finesse is not an issue as long as the tensile/sheer strength for the use of the steel.

    This AR will be completely disassembled and picked through with a fine tooth comb, upon which the decision will be made to take appropriate action. I hope it's just the barrel and It'll give me a reason to upgrade. . .

    I'm not one to rush into our pathetic legal system. He will be given the option to pay for the barrel. I will cover the labor, just so long as he comes no where near my gun.

    Call me a girly man if you will, but I haven't felt so close to crying since I lost my last dog. To make things worse, my Dad was up from NM and we were out for our annual marathon shoot.. . . then I made the discovery. Our shoot was ruined and so is my gun. . . WHY?!?!?!?!
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    my condolences. losing a gun to an idiot is like losing a part of you. i about had a fit when i dropped my winchester mod 70 african express 458 win mag off a few years ago to have a scope base found for it. the IDIOT tried to mount the base and stripped a screw hole. never had an issue with the shop and the were only supposed to get the right base not put it on. i about cried. at least the shop owner tried to make it right gave me the mount free. i had to send it off to have the receiver properly re-threaded.

    im always scared shtless when i have to leave on of my babies to have something done i cant do or not comfortable doing myself. i dont have a proper drill press or lathe for such things. i know how to do just about everything a gun needs i just dont have the machine tools.

    totally feel your pain.
     
  19. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    Thanks Man. . . that takes the edge off. My shop is getting to the point that equipment is ready to be brought in. A lot of it is Carpentry related, due to my profession, but I have a Good sized area completely dedicated to my beloved hobby. I also have the room for drill presses and a lathe. I also have the hookups and space for an oven (bake-on finishes/re-bluing, etc.) So in conjunction with my continuing education in the art of the firearm, I hope to have a comfort zone with all the necessities (knowledge, tools, equipment and most importantly desire!) that will allow me to approach these types of projects with out even thinking of some loser half assing or ruining a rifle that took months of planning, preparation, saving and arguing (wife :rolleyes:) to get it where I wanted it.

    I guess from here my AR guru friend will guide me in how I can salvage what's left. Luckily he is also part owner of the largest firearms dealer in the city. (still pretty small. . . ;)) I'm sure he's hip to the laws regarding competence levels of practicing gunsmiths. :)
     
  20. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    I won't comment much on the so called gunsmith that did the work except that he should have been paid with an old oak tree and a rope for his efforts. If done properly, welding the brake or flash suppressor in place will not harm the barrel. Always check a gunsmiths similar work and reputation prior to having work done. Also, one tack weld will not hold muster within the law. If tack welded, it must have 4 equally spaced tack welds to be legal. Good luck in the future.

    Jim............