Big AR thumpers.

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Ruzai, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    I'm not particularly an AR-15 guy but like most guys I like power, the more overwhelming and devastating the better...of course its all for fun and maybe some woods defense. So I was wondering if any of you had any experience you'd be willing to share about the larger caliber ARs like the 458 Socom, 50 Beowulf, and 450 Bushmaster. From what I understand the 450 and 458 both use typical large 45 caliber bullets and are fairly easy to handload for. I just now started looking at them but dont plan on buying anytime soon, I'm merely curious about them and anything shared will be appreciated, so how about 'em?
     
  2. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    You won't be disappointed ;)

    I love mine and when I light a round off at the range it definitely gets folks attention. I haven't hunted with it yet but researched a lot of info and videos from the 458SOCOM Forum - it will drop anything right where it stands.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/members/dog2000tj/albums/rra-458socom/

    Teppo Jutsu - "Art of the Rifle" - Advanced Firearms Applications

    Rock River Arms: RRA LAR-458 CAR A4

    Some others on here have other large caliber AR versions so I imagine they will chime in.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    if your going with anything other than 5.56 on a AR15 you better reload or have deep pockets. none of them are cheap off the shelf.

    my opinion the 458 socom is the best choice of all the current 45cal+ choices. reason being is simply the enormous selection of .458 bullets out there. the 450 bushmaster uses .451/.452 caliber bullets which are generally pistol bullets for the .45acp. neither one will work well with plated bullets so you cant save money there the fps is just too high.

    my choice is the .458 socom simply because of bullet selection and it replicates the perormance of the .45-70 cartridge in a functional semi-auto format and does not require modified magizines to run.

    for pig busting and deer hunting its a perfect brush cartridge.
     
  4. birdie

    birdie New Member

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    I have bushy 450 have shot 3 hogs wit one round dropped first 2 and wounded the third. Although I would get 458 socom if I'd researched deeper many Moore options or choices of bullets. And rounds are 29 - 32$ per 20 not as bad as some other big game rounds out their. Has kick and sound of 20 ga shotgun.
     
  5. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    Looked up a few ballistic charts for the 450 Bushmaster and supposedly if you sight the thing in at 80 yards you have a +2 inch rise before 80 and -2 inches at 200 yards. Sounds pretty nice in theory, but I'm wondering how well the 458 Socom fairs ballistically too.

    Edit/add-on: Where would be the best spot to zero with minimal pre-zero rise and post-zero fall (at say 200 yards)

    I like the fact that Teppo Jutsu claims you can use the 90 round 223 mag for approximately 30-35 rounds of total whoop-@%$. Then put a piston kit on it, if that's possible, just to keep the internals from getting too hot and you've got one hell of a gun.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  6. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    Looks as if the forum is back up and running. If you are interested in the 458 than this is the place to check out,

    www.458socomforums.com - Index

    :)
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    from what i understand the 450 bushmaster you have to use modified ar15 mags for it to work. to me thats a big no-no.
     
  8. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Yeah, I am thinking going with one of these. Wonder which to go with?;)
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Whichever one you better reload. All of em are pricey ammo off the shelf.

    450 bushmaster gotta use premium jacketed bullets fps too fast for plated and need special mags. Limited to pistol bullets

    458 socom can take a while to find brass uses standard ar mags massive selection of very effective bullets that work well at the designed fps. Can be difficult to load due to weird bottleneck case.

    500 beowulf limited selection of .500 bullets. Doesn't need special mags not a big jump in power over 458 or 450. Mostly limited by poor selection of bullets.
     
  10. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    If I ever end up building an AR-15, it'll be probably the 458 Socom with a 20" barrel and the AR will likely never see a 223 bullet in its life. :eek:
    The only thing about the 458 Socom is the accuracy compared to the 450 Bushie, but if you reload it correctly I'm sure you could get close if not similar accuracy out of the 458 Socom.
     
  11. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    W/ big rounds like that would there be any real gains using the 20" barrel? I guess it all depends on how the powder burns. I just figured a round that large would require fast burning powder.
     
  12. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    It all depends on who's loading it. The only reason I'd want the 20" is to squeeze out a little more downrange accuracy. There is plenty of unburnt powder coming out of a 16" barrel with such a big round. If you use the 20" it'll burn more of the powder and it'll equal to more velocity and force. This coupled with the extra 4 inches of rifling help stabilize the bullet better which makes a better flight path. It helps but it's not blatantly apparent usually.
     
  13. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    next range trip ill pop a good scope from one of my other rifles on my socom and give a range report on what its capable of. but last december it wa squeezing a little under an inch at 100 yards.
     
  15. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    Awesome, that's pretty good for bullets with a low ballistic coefficients.
    I'm looking forward to hearing the report.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    45cal bullets are inherently accurate from the get go. the ballistic coefficent is more about how flat the bullet flies not so much about accuracy. the big 45cal bullets drop off rapidly past 200yds in both power and elevation, they hold accuracy very very well. my winchester mod 70 458 winmag holds moa at 200yards but there is quite a bit of drop after that. with my 458winmag zeroed at 100yds its barely on paper at 300 with my poi at the top of the target. but the grouping is very very good holds very tight groups. my normal bullet for the socom and winmag is a 350 grain round nose jacketed soft point from hornady.

    i havent shot the socom past 100yards yet as i barely got it ready for the deer hunt this year when i got back the snow and cold set in. come spring im going to do a comparison of 458 winmag 458 lott and 458 socom. ill include some big 510grain elephant bullet action in there as well.

    im not saying the 450bushmaster isnt good but they are using pistol bullets that are being fired at much higher velocity than intended when coming out of a rifle barrel with a lot more power behind it. the busmaster uses bullets designed for a 850-1000fps envelope. i would like to find someone that is into reloading with some tuned ammo to see what they can really do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  17. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    From what I understand the 450 is shooting below 1 inch at 100 yards. I bet if either of them had tuned ammo they'd be nail drivers.

    What would you all think of a 44 magnum upper for an AR-15 or an AR-10? Would you buy it if it was proved to work reliably?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2011
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i would be more interested in a 500SW upper
     
  19. VitSports6

    VitSports6 New Member

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    This has been an interesting read, I have one more AR build in the works, I was thinking about the .50 beowulf(I do reload) but it sounds like the 458 SOCOM might be the ticket.
    I look forward to your comparison.
     
  20. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    I'm not quite sure if anyone's tried that before. I'll have to check and see about measurements and pressures to see if that's possible. If it is I may have to run it by the right people to see if I can get anyone's attention with it. I'm going to shoot an email to the owner of Tromix to see if he can tell me anything about his discontinued 44 mag upper and see what he thinks of a 500s&w upper.