Better off with no gun ?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by galapogos, May 20, 2012.

  1. galapogos

    galapogos New Member

    The state of affairs in the Nation scares me a bit.

    One wrong move, even accidental, and you can become a convicted felon and find yourself in prison for an uncomfortably long time. It REALLY doesn't take much.

    I wonder how many people who get a Concealed Carry permit wind up in SERIOUS trouble or in prison because of a moment of indiscretion. You almost have to be a lawyer to avoid trouble. It seems prosecutors and cops are just looking for a reason to nail average otherwise law abiding citizens and label them criminals and felons.

    I'm ready for the barrage of "I'd rather be in trouble than in a coffin" replies but really. We've learned that even self defense is no defense. And that criminals seem to have the upper hand often. How common is it where the perp sues the victim and WINS !!

    I think the Justice system is out of control. Jail sentences are handed out like candy and often horribly disproportionately. A blue collar crime gets 40 years while a thug with a rap sheet miles long gets off with a hand slap after taking someone's life. Even juries can't always be trusted to return a fair verdict.

    In light of all this, it's not really all that common to come across a situation where your life is threatened. I mean, yes, OCCASIONALLY it happens and in those rare circumstances your life can be saved by being armed....but I say it's not that often.
    Are you ALWAYS in total control of your emotions? Always?

    So is the exposure to the risk of going foul with the law WORTH the risk of having and carrying a gun given the wussified state of this Nation and the readiness of prosecutors to dole out jail time in multiples of 20 years for even the most ridiculous reasons?

    Your thoughts could be interesting.

  2. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

    Prison is a roof over your head, food every day, tv, and a prison job.

    Dead is dead. A cold grave while your body dissolves.

    Just remember to respond proportionally to the threat.

    Don't gun somebody down for punching you once in the face.

  3. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

    Can't a person be seriously injured, or even killed by a punch in the face?
  4. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

    Yes but shoobee is the all knowing master so what does "simple minded rednecks" know even though between the two of us we have almost certainly seen more blood spilled than he can imagine.

    God didnt make all men equal colonel Sam Colt did
  5. GatorDude

    GatorDude New Member

    Galapogos poses and interesting question. I know everyone on this forum is pretty level headed. But, some folks aren't. I think every potential gun owner should look in the mirror and think carefully before deciding to buy a gun or carry a gun concealed. Gun ownership is a right everyone has, but it's also a right that many folks might think twice about exercising. If you are quick to anger, if you can't hold your tongue and walk away from an argument, then you might not want to have a gun readily at hand. If you and/or your associates are involved in criminal activity, you are just adding years to the sentence you'll receive when you get caught. If you are a binge drinker, a habitual drunk, or a drug user, you probably ought not get a gun. If you get depressed or if you've been diagnosed as a manic depressive or you live with someone who has, gun ownership is probably not for you. It's really common sense stuff and a lot of it is on the background check form. But, people really need to think about this stuff or they could get themselves in deep trouble.

    Seven Reasons Why You Shouldn't Have a Gun
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    A wiser man than me used to tell me "We cannot be all things to all people." You can bet he did not work for the Federal Govt. A corollary to that- we cannot be the Mommy to all.

    IF someone is dumb enough to acquire a handgun and misuse it, that becomes a self correcting matter. Just as a criminal that acquires a gun, and misuses it.

    However, despite the HUGE numbers of ill trained, poorly educated, emotionally unstable NON-professionals that hold a Concealed permit (or so the Brady Campaign keeps telling me), the percentage of people that even have a permit revoked for inappropriate behavior is astonishingly LOW. A fraction of a fraction of 1%.

    So where are the streets awash with blood? We have been told repeatedly- if the average Joe (or Josephine) carries a gun, the streets will be running with blood. Every fender bender will be the OK Corral. Did I miss it? Dang! Hate it when that happens! :rolleyes:

    Yes, misusing a firearm IS going to mess up your life big time, in assorted ways. But there are a hell of a lot more people that have fallen into that mess by letting their car keys get too close to a beer bottle.

    Life IS a series of choices. Some folks ARE going to choose unwisely. However, if my choices are being a victim, or being a defendant, my attorney can get me out of jail. He cannot get me out of the cemetery. Being alive allows me to continue to make choices. Being dead does not.
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    Wow that article describes ows types perfectly.

    Nanny staters that think the government and police will protect you probably shouldnt own guns.

    Millions and millions of people go through the day every day armed. Its rare beyound belief for someone to do something monumentally stupid like zimmerman interjecting himself into someone elses business and end up with a murder charge.

    The first rule of self defense whether you carry a gun or a knife or taser or pepper spray or go around naked as the day you were born is: "mind your own damn business"

    Injecting yourself into a situation where you dont belong is how you end up dead injured or in jail. Whether you posses a gun or not has nothing to do with it.
  8. niteglock

    niteglock New Member

    If you can, listen to Chicago news everyday and you will see how many people are killed daily in this city. Almost all of them are innocent men, women, and kids. Everyday I listen to the news on radio at work and hear about at the least 6 people a day dead from violence/guns. one weekend we had 30. That's Friday and Saturday. Crazy. That's another reason we need a carry law out here. Make em think twice about running up on someone.
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    gun ownership is a responsiblity as much as it is a right. handling guns safely should always be priority one. carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and isn't a fashion statement or some way to appear badass and cool. it is IMO, an item to have and never need, rather to need and not have. if you carry concealed, then no one should ever know you carry. that's the purpose of concealed carry. if you carry open, keep a lower profile, and don't draw unneeded attention to yourself. as said before, mind your own business. just because you carry, doesn't give you anymore right to act in some type of LE capacity. if a crime is committed in your presence, unless someones life is in mortal danger, you can better serve the LEO's in being a good witness and giving accurate details and descriptions of the offenders.

    with many stats now passing Castle Laws, we now have laws that are designed to protect law abiding citizens who have to resort to deadly force to defend themselves. which means the burden of proof that you didn't have to use deadly force is now taken from you and not the other way around as it use to be. also i have said this before, and will say it again, just because you have the right to use deadly force, doesn't mean you have to. IMO, resorting to a gun is the last available option and not the first reaction to a problem.

    seven reasons not to own a firearm? the seven reasons listed are pretty much standard reasons that are listed on the ATF form 4473. if you're a convicted felon, you can't purchase legally in the first place. lying on the ATF form 4473 is a seperate felony in itself.
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  10. wjnfirearms

    wjnfirearms New Member

    Axxe used one word that fits the bill quite nicely. The word is RESPONSIBILITY. The Castle laws, including the part that exempts the lawful user of deadly force from civil liability as in our's here in the Keystone, is all well and good, but the shoot has to be justified in the first place for the Castle laws to be valid in any situation. Responsibility is all encompassing starting from education to knowing when or when not to pull the weapon and so on.
  11. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

    The Appaloosa: "The next time you point a gun at me, you better pull that trigger, because I'm going to blow you into so many pieces your friends will get tired of looking for you."
  12. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

    Know what to shoot.....and when!

    Yes, it's easy to sit in front of the computer typing a response but when it comes down to the brass tacks and you're confronted with a situation, it's your overall mental preparedness that ends up being the final determination of your actions. Going to the range and shooting paper targets is one thing. Being confronted by, or being in the proximity of, a perp committing a crime is a whole other animal. There are so many things that you must "process" mentally. Is he armed? What is he armed with? Is he threatening other people or you? Does he appear nervous or in some other way "impared," either by drugs or alcohol?
    There is also the entire scene to process. How many innocent people are around? How accurate a shot are YOU? What is YOUR mental state? Excited? Nervous? Scared? Breathless? How will THAT affect your accuracy?
    All of this has to go through your mind in an instant while you're a witness to the commission of a crime. There are simulators that give an abbreviated view of situations like this and some LEOs are trained using them. But there's still that "not really there in reality" factor even WITH a simulator. Until you're actually in that situation (and here's hoping that you or I never are), you really can't be sure WHAT your response will be. All one can do is make sure that you are the most proficient you can be with your carry weapon and if it ever comes down to you having to draw your weapon, you will be, at least, prepared enough to pull the trigger and hit what you're aiming at (the perp) and not an innocent.
  13. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

    Great post Gordon.
  14. taosgunguy

    taosgunguy New Member

    When I got my Concealed Carry Permit in New Mexico, I started researching the topic of what happens if you use the firearm in self defense, even without firing it. One thing that came across clearly was that many people who had a self defense incident end up taking a plea bargain because they couldn't afford the tens of thousands of dollars for a good 2nd Amendment attorney.
  15. RJMercer

    RJMercer New Member

    Know your weapon, know yourself, know the applicable laws, know your surroundings. Pray you never have to shoot anything but paper.
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    very well said FlashGordan. very good points and thoughts to give consideration to. no one can know truly what they will do when confronted with a situation that could result in having to use deadly force. i personally don't believe there is any way to prepare one's self for for every situation that could arise. but paying attention to details. being aware of your surroundings, and not putting yourself into a situation that would compromise your safety will keep you from much harm. the random acts of violence are the ones that are harder to prepare for. these could happen anywhere, anytime and to anyone. a mugging, attempted rape or assualt, carjacking and just plain mean spirited evil people who are looking hurt someone just for the pleasure of it. i think the best preparation is to use plain old common sense. sometimes maybe better to use your head instead of a gun.
  17. bkt

    bkt New Member

    There's no substitute for training and mental preparation for dealing with a situation where you may have to draw down on someone and shoot.

    But it seems that there are an awful lot of hoops one must jump through to be found innocent of wrongdoing these days. You don't want people shooting others without a good reason, but "good reason" is subjective. What's really a lethal threat? When you get cold-cocked, knocked down and some big guy is pounding the bejeebus out of you, is it reasonable to shoot? I'd think so, but ask George Zimmerman how that's working out.

    It should never be the case that "shoot, shovel and shut up" is considered as a course of action, but again it seems that might sometimes be the only way to defend yourself and not end up in prison as a convicted felon (and thus be unable to legally defend yourself or your loved ones with a firearm ever again).

    Common sense has left us, both in our justice system and among the general populace.
  18. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

    "You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it." - Clint Smith
  19. beastmode986

    beastmode986 New Member

    yep when i lived in Bridgeport or should i say scumport(referring to most people) it was and still is an awful neighborhood.I saw a kid he was around 7 or 8 and he was smoking a joint. real great parenting.... not to mention the massive amount of drug dealers,theives,''gangsters' (btw plenty of them) and i even knew people who were shot in the neighborhood. Just terrible parenting and kids that are going nowhere i even heard on the news about an old couple being beat to death with a brick and one of my friends got stabbed and almost died while taking out the garbage. Just an awful place to be. if there were less people who thought it was cool to be a thug,gangsta,hood rat then the world might be alot better.....
    to bad i didnt know one adult that concealed or open carried. by the way i knew alot of the adults.
  20. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    I know that I might not be here if I had not had a gun when I needed it. I will carry and live with the risk. The anti gun people want you to have the no gun attitude. Give in and they win.