Best WWII Sniper Rifle is...

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by Trez, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Trez,

    You get an A+ for your answer!
    Simple answer the 1903 Springfield Sniper Rifle. It was the most accurate Sniper and Service rifle in the world at the time. They sure could have used some of the good glass we have today! But never the less in my opinion it gets my vote!:)

    03
     

  3. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    The article I posted said the M91/30 was the best rifle according to their tests.
     
  4. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    I can't imagine how in a million years they came to that conclusion... The O3 comes out ahead of the Mosin in every category except simplicity and cost.
     
  5. Georgiahunter

    Georgiahunter New Member

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    They came to that conclusion because they wanted to. If you want a certain outcome to occur, you will subconsciously try to make it happen. This is the human error in most experiments. I would also say the 1903 would be more accurate from what I have seen and read, seeing as it was almost a carbon copy of the Mauser, except it was better made.
     
  6. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Agree with that, from what I hear the Mosin is only good for about 300 yards anyway.
     
  7. billt

    billt New Member

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    Easy, the Russians killed more people with it sniping than we did with the 03-A3.
     
  8. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Best WWII era Sniper: Simo Häyhä using a Mosin Nagant. 505 confirmed kills of Soviets. He preferred Iron sights as they produced less of a silhouette. The optics the U.S. used were so inferior to German optics is is startling. The Soviets had a plant built before the war called Progress, it made copies of German scopes and then came out w/ the PU, a cheap, tough, accurate system. The 1903 was a copy of the K98, U.S. glass sucked. U.S. scopes lacked in many areas. The tube diameter was so small as were the lenses and it was 2 feet long to try and compare to a 12" german scope. It was basically comparable to a .22 scope from K-mart w/all the adjustments coming from the rear mount. Sure it had the name Unertl, but they were in their infancy. I sold a M41b Swede w/ a German ajack, That glass was awesome. I have a late war Zeiss Zeilvier It is wonderful and was the 1st w/ coated lenses. The PU is also a great system. I like mine quite a bit. All used the #4 German post reticule.
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    All of these systems allow for the use of iron sights without removing the scope. If you do remove the scope, it returns to zero when you put it back on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  9. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Let's not confuse BEST with most SUCCESSFUL.
    Example: I got over 400K miles from a motor that was considered one of the worst Ford ever used. 2.9 Cologne V6. I'm the Simo of crappy engineering.

    I have mad respect for the mosin, those of you who know me can tell. But it's not for every one.
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    the 1903 was the best bolt gun of the war by far but it was almost completely crippled by the simply atrocious m84 scope
     
  12. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    So I take that It was the optics that made the '03 bad, not the gun...
     
  13. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    That's the way I understand it.
     
  14. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    The one that Sgt. York used, the 1917, aka "United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917"
     
  15. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    This is easy if you are a student of the platform.

    The Winchester Model 70 (Pre-'64) was FIRST PRODUCED in 1936.

    The Second World War OFFICIALLY began on the 1st of September, 1939.

    The Winchester Model 70, Pre-1964, action is THE BEST action that was available at the time of the war.

    Whether someone used it or not is irrelevant. The technology was AVAILABLE at the time of the war.

    Carlos Hathcock used a bull barrel, off the shelf, Model 70 in .30-06 in Vietnam (arguably a much tougher "hunting" environment) and he was credited with 93 CONFIRMED kills.

    His mentor....

    Charles "Chuck" Mawhinney, recorded 103 confirmed kills with a very similar (practically the same) rifle.

    Simo had the benefit of working in -20 to -40 degree CELSIUS weather when the Soviet Union made the mistake of trying to invade Finland.

    Yes, he has the most in service kills!
    Yes, he has the most kills in the shortest period of service time!
    Yes, he was a bad ass of epic proportion!​

    But he was facing an enemy, on HIS TURF, that was constantly advancing and was highlighted by the fact that every breath was exposed to anyone that was looking.

    Shooting fish in a barrel (the guy recorded an average of FIVE KILLS a day, which is no accident) is an easy description.

    But as effective as he was, he wasn't as instrumental as other snipers have been in other wars.

    One shot can make a hell of a difference and snipers of the US have routinely made that difference time and again in all sorts of conflicts. (Did you know that Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down, credits a DELTA sniper with killing Pablo Escobar?)

    The Winchester Model 70, in a long or short action, was the finest action being produced AT THAT TIME. With a half assed barrel, I would still put it up against the "well made" Mosin or other offering from the Eastern Blok at the time and feel very comfortable.

    JD
     
  16. davemccarthy707

    davemccarthy707 New Member

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    Nice post! My November 1918 built, Mint condition, US model of 1917 will shoot with any modern firearm out there. It is in full military configuration. It can shoot much better than me. I think it is equal to or better than the Winchester model 70. It also holds 6 rounds ;)

    As for sniper rifles of WW2 the Finnish M39 is the king of WW2. However they were much scarce to have any effect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  17. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    I got to shoot the 1903 a little while back and just with iron sights I get the feeling that rifle is a tack driver in more capable hands. I didn't do too bad 100yards 4" group off bench but I think that a scoped version would have no problem putting rounds on target accurately just as well as some modern rifles. But 91/30 was cranked out of the factorys about as fast as ammo was, If I remember correctly the russian had more snipers then any other country during the war.
     
  18. billt

    billt New Member

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    The Springfield 03-A3 was a "good" bolt action rifle. It was not "the best" bolt action rifle of the war. It was basically a copy of the Mauser 98. That is what made it "good". Not the fact it was the United States that copied it.
     
  19. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Correct! The reason the K98 was better is that it fully supported the case head, the 1903 does not. There is this odd thing called a feed cone that is the cause of this on the '03.
     
  20. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    According to the test the 91/30 was the best.. :p
    They were using period ammo as well.

    Group sizes:
    M91/30 PU 3.5X- 300 yd: 4.75"; 500 yd: 10"; 1,000yd: 16"
    K98 ZF41 1.5X- 300yd: 6"; 400yd: 20" (At 400 yds the recticle post completely covered the target)
    K98 ZF4 4X- 300yd: 5"; 500yd: 12"
    M1903 Leatherwood 3X- 300yd: 2.5"; 500yd: 5"
    M1903A4 2.5X- 300yd: 9.5"; 500yd: 16"
    Enfield MK.VII No.4 (T) 3.5X- 300yd: 8"; 400yd: 16"

    Hmmm... Seems to mt the M1903 with the Leatherwood 3X scope was doing pretty good; Wonder why they didnt shoot it at longer ranges?? :confused: