Best grain for rate of twist

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by AlotOfPayne, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Some of you seen my post about my new gun, which is a savage in 243 the rate of twist is 1 in 9.25. Which grain do you think would be best to shoot in it factory wise? I've seen several different factory loads in different grains and speeds muzzle velocity wise. I'll list the gr and speed to save time I'm not gonna put brands. Just your opinion on what the grain would be and if the speed would be too hot to run in my gun 24"heavy barrel not gonna be shooting fast range and coyote hunting at ranges out to 500

    55gr mv 3850

    55gr mv 3910

    58gr mv 3750

    58gr mv 3945

    70gr mv 3400

    75gr mv 3400

    80gr mv 3350

    80gr mv 3425

    85gr mv 3200

    85gr mv 3320

    90gr mv 3100

    90gr mv 3200

    95gr mv 2980

    95gr mv 3030

    95gr mv 3185

    100gr mv ranging from 2838-3200
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    80-105 gr, you should be good to go with the twist that you have. Lighter bullets may need a faster twist, and will retain much less energy at 500 yds.
     

  3. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    What's too hot to run through the barrel 4000 fps and up?
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    The faster you push a projectile through your bore really doesn't make much difference,but your throat will suffer erosion from the hot gasses after a number of hot rounds when the barrel gets hot.
    In all of the years I've been shooting and reloading,very few rifles shoot maximum loads the best. Most like middle of the road powder charges,and the only thing your doing by pushing a bullet faster is burning more powder,loosing accuracy,and getting your barrel hot.

    Each rifle likes a certain bullet/load,you'll just have to experiment and find out what your rifle likes.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have to agree with TXhillbilly, that faster is not always better or more accurate. i have found some of my most accurate loads in the middle range of powder charges. i am much more concerned with accuracy over speed now.

    even two seemingly identical rifles with the same twist ratio can perform differently with the same load and bullet. even two different brands of bullets in the same weight range can perform differently in the same rifle.

    this is why many of us who shoot rifles like to reload. we can fine tune a particular load and bullet to a specific rifle, increasing it's accuracy.
     
  6. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    Also, dont get overly concerned about the numbers that various brands put on their loads. You most likely wont see the real world velocities to match their claims. Its just the way it is. And since its factory ammo, good luck with finding more than a couple in a box that are even close together. So forget their claims.
    Even tho most factory stuff is kinda sloppy, you'll most likely find something that your rifle will shoot respectably enough. But dont get too high of hopes for cloverleafs. Yes, it could happen.
    I would start at the 75-90g and see if theres something there it likes. Its trial and error. As was said, each rifle has its own tastes, and theres only 1 way to find it.
     
  7. bamashooter68

    bamashooter68 Member

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    A .243 with a 1/9.5 twist is designed for heavier bullets like the 100gr and maybe certain 105gr bullets but you are certainly not limited to heavier bullets. I reload so I am a believer in handload superiority but I have to disagree that ''most factory stuff is kinda sloppy.'' That is just not true. There might be some bad batches or even low end manufacturers that have ammo that is inconsistent but overall most ammo companies make good quality ammunition that can easily shoot sub-moa groups. I have shot some of Hornady's new Whitetail 30-06 ammo that did just that.. Cloverleaf. That ammo shot as well as some of my handloads. Don't be fooled, there is good quality factory ammo out there.
     
  8. bntyhntr6975

    bntyhntr6975 New Member

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    Uh....congrats? Are you wanting a medal, or a chest to pin it on?

    Maybe our definitions of 'good quality ammunition' as you put it, are different. Compared to precision loads, yes, most factory stuff is sloppy. Weigh a few. Measure a few. Weigh a few charges. If that stuff is your idea of acceptable, fine. Yes, there are some factory stuff that is better than others. And Im sure that even the premium lines will come in 2nd to a precision handload. So I will continue to call anything less than consistant precision, sloppy.
     
  9. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Txhillbilly thanks for the info. I thought that the rifling was being messed up by running hot loads through it. Now I know its the throat. I got all the trial and error stuff guys. I just figured asking about the gr would help me narrow down a little bit of the trial and error. But my question still is what do y'all think is to hot velocity wise that starts to harm the throat? Thanks everyone for the help and info.
     
  10. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was under the impression the heavier bullets need the 'tighter' twist to stabilize, not the lighter?????:confused:
    The reason for this is their length in relationship to the bore size and the fact that the lower velocity they are launched at reduces the 'speed' of the rotation.:confused:
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have to disagree about the factory ammo as well. most major brands of ammo is pretty well put together. i have shot even the lesser expensive types with good results of accuracy. the advantage of reloading is the ability to fine tune for even higher potential of accuracy from the rifle. not that the ammo is sloppy. most people who reload are looking for increased accuracy as result of their efforts. but that doesn't mean factory ammo is less accurate, just that most reloaders are looking to make more accurate ammo cheaper than the cost of premium ammo.

    example. a box of premium Winchester Ballistic Silvertips in 140 grain for my 280 Remington costs me about $45 a box of 20. i can make that same quality of ammo using new brass for about $32 a box of 20. reusing that brass the cost has dropped to about $11 a box of 20. so i can now shoot about 60-80 rounds for the cost of one premium box of factory loaded ammo.

    the brass has always been the most expensive portion of most ammo reloading. and by fine tuning the bullets and the powder charges to a particular rifle it's possible to make ammo that is more accurate. factory ammo is made to perform well in hundreds of thousands of rifles. handloaded ammo is made to perform much better in usually one rifle.
     
  12. bamashooter68

    bamashooter68 Member

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    Nope. Already have both. As for the factory Hornady Whitetail I was talking about and don't get me wrong, I love reloading and I believe my reloads are superior but there is definitely good factory ammo out there.

    I have 5rds of the whitetail ammo left. Im not going to pull any bullets and weigh the bullet, the powder, the brass like I normally do when I am loading but I did take them down and weigh them and I can say I wasn't surprised because they shot very well.

    1st 385.6gr
    2nd 387.0gr
    3rd 386.6gr
    4th 386.3gr
    5th 385.3gr

    That is $23 box of ammo and its anything but sloppy. Less than 2gr difference. If I loaded them I would be satisfied with the results.
     
  13. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Will one of you please answer the question. What do y'all think is too hot to run in your gun over 4000 or in the 3800+ area?
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    anytime you run a large case with a small bullet and push them at high velocity, you run the risk of throat erosion. a 243 case running a 55 gr. bullet at 3800 fps and above is pushing high velocity and running the chance of faster wear on the throat of the chamber.

    i have a load for using a 75 gr. bullet in my 25-06, but very seldom load them or shoot them. it approaches the 3700-3800 fps range in velocity.
     
  15. bamashooter68

    bamashooter68 Member

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    .243 with a 58gr or 62gr is in the 3800-3850fps range. 80-85gr is 3100-3300fps range. 90-100gr is 3000-2950fps range. Your rifle should shoot all of them. Buy some and shoot and see what you and your rifle likes. I don't shoot any lower than 85gr in my .243. If I want to go lower grain bullet I use my .223.

    Those velocities are just guesstimations. Nothing scientific. BTW velocity doesn't mean its more accurate or better. If I was shooting 400+yrds I wouldn't use a 58gr V-Max. I would want a bullet with a high ballistic coefficient and that would be in the 80-105gr range.
     
  16. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    As a rule you need a faster twist barrel to handle the heavier bullets. A good example of this is the AR-15 223/5.56 cal rifles. The 1:12 slower twist will not stabilize bullets much over 55 grain bullets. If you shoot heavier they will not stabalize in flight and you will get key hole or side stikes on the target. So in order to shoot the heavier bullets like the 69 and 70 grain bullets you need a faster twist. 1:9 / 1:7 / 1:8. The 1:9 is good as a rule for 55 grain to 68 grain while the 1:7 and 1:8 twists will also handle the heavier bullets up to 80 grain if you could load them in a magazine which you can not due to overall length. But I have shot a 243 Winchester caliber rifles since the 70s. And I would say anything over 3600 Fps you are adding to the throat erosion much quicker than normal. And especially up around 3800-4000 range. That is why the 220 SWIFT Rifles were notorious for burning up the throat at 4300 fps. My suggestion is to stay max around 3600 or less. 3500 is about the norm for factory 243 ammunition

    03
     
  17. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Bamashooter and everyone lol I know about what most bullets are traveling at. The question is you can damage the throat of the barrel by running hot loads. I'm thinking about starting to reload what would be too hot of a round because I don't wanna mess the throat up. So what would be the most comfortable speed to shoot through it.
     
  18. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Thanks sniper03 for finally answering the question
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    first of all you need to determine what the load you work up, is going to used for. so you need to choose a bullet weight that will do the intended job for that load. is there a need to run that fast of a velocity to begin with? velocity does not always equal accuracy.

    anytime you run really hot loads that have small bullets, you run the risk of throat erosion. it's part of the price you pay for that joy of shooting very fast and small bullets with a large case. if throat erosion is a big concern, then stepping down in velocity is what is needed.

    case in point. my father has Winchester M70 in 243 he bought in the late 1960's that he has reloaded his own ammo for well over forty years and has many thousands of rounds and hasn't lost any accuracy yet. but he never looked for velocity, but accuracy over the years. most of his loads he made for the rifle were in the 80-105 gr. weight range.

    now if you want to run 55-60 gr. weight bullets at around 3800-4000 fps range, then there is the possibility that increased throat erosion is going to occur. how many rounds before accuracy starts to fall off is a guess at best. but how fast it takes within that range is a guess too. if it takes say, 3000 rounds to wear out the throat that accuracy is degraded, and you shoot 150 rounds a year, that's about 20 years until you see the accuracy degrade. now if you shoot about 500 rounds in a year, that is now down to six years and if you shoot 1000 rounds a year, you are now down to three years before looking at a barrel change.
     
  20. AlotOfPayne

    AlotOfPayne New Member

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    Axxe I get all that I was just curious is to what it takes to damage the throat ill probably just be using the rifle for target and coyote hunting out to 500 max