benefit of da vs. da/sa?

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by cals400ex, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. cals400ex

    cals400ex New Member

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    i am new to this scene and i wasn't sure the benefit of a da over a da/sa? any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    there is only a benefit if your training a large mass of people who will use the weapon only rarely if ever. such as police forces or military.

    da/sa, sa, striker type guns are better for the civilian type folk and the individual leo who are looking to spend more time training.

    the double action pull is heavy clumsy long and difficult to be accurate with under stress but smooths the training proccess greatly.

    sa or single action triggers generally have an external safety of some sort and an extra step is involved but the light crisp pull lends its self well to accurate very fast shooting. the striker pistol style like glock the triggers are generally mushy and very very poor as the striker is a compromise between da and sa pulls eliminating the transition between da to sa in the da/sa pistols.

    the exception to the striker being a poor trigger style is the springfield xd/xdm. the triggers on those guns are very nice and the closest you will get to a 1911 sa trigger yet still retain a good deal of safety even after eliminating the external safety and da pull.

    its generally the transition from da mode to sa mode that is the most difficult aspect of more traditional da/sa pistol shooters to overcome.
     

  3. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    Personally, I don't see a benefit of a DAO over a da/sa, but I'm sure others may feel otherwise.

    The DAO would give you a consistent long trigger pull every time, but it is the worse of the two trigger pulls. So, you only have to "learn" one trigger pull, albeit, a bad one.

    The DAO allows you always carry hammer down. Some people might like that idea. But there is no benefit over a da/sa with a decocker which would allow you to carry the same way.

    Second strike capability is another "benefit" of dual-action, but again you'd be able to do the same with a da/sa. Quite frankly dumping the round is a better option.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  4. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Most CCW civilians and LEO's agree there is a distinct advantage to having a consistent trigger pull from shot to shot.

    DA/SA guns have a long heavy trigger pull for the first shot, the pistol then cocks itself and all following shots are SA. On most DA/SA guns the trigger position drops back enough. "after that 1st DA shot", to require a slight alteration to the shooters grip. These are not issues you want to deal with if bullets are coming in your direction.

    Common logic would recommend that novice shooters who are going to CCW begin with either a DA only trigger system or one of the striker fired guns because there is no active safety "to forget to disengage", and your trigger pull is always the same.

    Some of the more advanced shooters prefer the SA only pistols such as a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power. Also gaining in popularity are several DA/SA's being designed for the option of SA "locked & cocked" carry. They all typically have an active thumb safety with must be disengaged before the gun will fire. Under stress it's very easy to forget this step which is why I do not recommend them for novice CCW.

    The important thing to note with both recommendations is that either way you get a consistent trigger pull from the first shot to the last and with practice and training you can certainly be effective with either.

    Hope this helped & good luck,

    TACK
     
  5. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    If your not going to spend much time training, then the DAO might be your best bet. However, its my humble opinion that you just cant beat the Bersa Thunder .45 DA/SA Trigger!
     
  6. cals400ex

    cals400ex New Member

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    i am a novice and the gun probably won't get much use. i was looking really closely at the sig 226 and the cz 75. on a da/sa gun, you can manually cock it, correct? if so, this would avoid two different trigger pulls. also, i don't understand what a decocker is??
     
  7. cals400ex

    cals400ex New Member

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    btw, neither of these would be carried. it will be used for home defense, plinking, some range shooting, etc.
     
  8. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I don't mind my 1911 with the "cocked and locked" mode,

    but the Beretta 92 has the DA with the de-cocker safety, which

    IMO is not only safe, but also available quick,fast, and in a hurry.
     
  9. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I personally dont like that first loooong pull, i like a cocked locked single action 1911
     
  10. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    The decocker is used to drop the hammer safetly without the fear of the gun going off (decocking without using the decocker is a no-no for sure).

    Every DA/SA that I know of can be manually cocked into SA.

    One of the things I really don't like about the Bersa is that there is no way to carry it in SA mode with the safety on. If you cock the hammer and engage the safety, the hammer decocks. Thats just how they have designed their guns. So, its really a matter of personal preference.

    Anyways, a DAO may be a better way for you to go, however, that typically goes for people who plan to carry but don't plan to practice much. If your going to carry AND plan to practice twice or more a month, I think DA/SA would be fine.

    You will hear this a lot, but if you have the opportunity you should simply go out and shoot whatever it is your interested in getting. It leads to less regret later on!
     
  11. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter New Member

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    For a defense weapon, DA (only) makes a lot of sense. Every trigger pull will have the same long, heavy pull. IMHO, it's dangerous to have a defense weapon where the first trigger pull is heavy/long and the follow up pulls are very short and light. Under stress, that's an invitation for an AD.
     
  12. knfxda

    knfxda New Member

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    A decocker is a lever on some da/sa guns that allows you to safely drop the hammer while a round us in the chamber without firing the gun. This would return you to DA mode because the round would be chambered and the hammer would be down requiring the longer trigger pull that pulls back and drops the hammer.

    With a da/sa gun, one method of training would be to fire one DA shot followed be one or two SA shots, then decock the gun and repeat the process. This is to train you on the transition from DA to SA.

    Personally, I think the whole two different trigger pull "disadvantage" of a DA/SA is a lot of bunk. When people float a shot with a DA/SA it's the first shot - the DA shot, not any of the SA shots. So how can all DA shots be an advantage? The long hard trigger pull is the problem for new shooters and what induces bad trigger pulls. So more if them (DAO) isn't better!

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  13. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    Interesting perspective. I'm not sure I entirely agree, but interesting. A good DA/SA should have a DA pull equal to that of a good DAO revolver. If you pulled the trigger the first time, thus putting it into SA, then I don't see much reason to fear a AD.

    Just my .02
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    you ought to check the springfield xdm out no manual safety just rack the slide to charge each shot is controlled by a decent weight easy to use trigger pull. consistant accuracy. easy very easy to use for a new shooter. keep your finger out of the trigger guard unless you need to shoot. the grip safety ensures you have to have a proper grip for it to go off.


    my wife is really new to handguns and she grasped it right off. she is pretty good with a xdm.

    ive been a 1911 shooter for 20+ years and i realllly like the ease of use of the xdm. its about as close as you can get to a 1911 without it being one
     
  15. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Talking about double action and revolvers, i handled and felt the trigger pull on a colt python.. Tht thing was as smooth as butter.. If all double actions felt like that it wouldnt be a problem
     
  16. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter New Member

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    It's because the second pulls are so short and the trigger finger is "searching" for the trigger because it has moved significantly rearward from the first position. IMHO, this is the reason so many LE's carrying Berettas will swear they fired once and they find out it was three or four times.
     
  17. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    A buddy of mine, working as a local Sheriffs Deputy, carries a Sig as his duty weapon (don't recall the model). Its also a DA/SA and man, that DA is near enough to perfection for me. Never had an opportunity to handle a Colt Python, but if its anything like this Sig, its a keeper :cool:.
     
  18. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter New Member

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    I can tune the trigger pull of a SW revolver to be as good. That's what I recommend for a defense gun. Consistent 8# trigger pull every time, smooth as glass.
     
  19. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    Point taken. ;)
     
  20. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter New Member

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    The XD is a very good design and Springer Precision sells sears and trigger parts that can make the trigger very good. It's the best striker fired defense gun, very good choice for a new shooter.