Benefit of 1911s?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by mcfroggin, May 18, 2011.

  1. mcfroggin

    mcfroggin New Member

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    I've never owned a 1911, so I'm wondering - what is the fuss about?

    I would think that a Glock is less likely to rust. Rumor has it that 1911's don't feed hollow points as well, but any truth to that? 1911's are larger weopons that are more difficult to conceal - at least it appears that way by the eye test.

    I understand that you can customize a 1911 much easier than something like a Glock, but how important is it to have a different color handle or something?

    I know it sounds like I'm trying to flame 1911's here, but no one in my family has a 1911. Is there a benefit or is it because of the long heritage that people like 1911s? Maybe it just feels better?

    There are military grade 1911s, but the police carry Glocks yes?

    Also seems like 1911's are often more expensive. How do you justify the cost increase? I must be missing something. :confused:
     
  2. BlindOldMan

    BlindOldMan New Member

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    I really like the trigger on the 1911. They're also generally heavier and feel more like a piece of machinery rather than a disposable razor. That said, I own a lot of Glocks :D.
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Have you shot a 1911? On a quality 1911, there is so much to appreciate.

    I have owned Glocks in the past, but I have none now. To me, the feel of the trigger, the grip, and how it just does not fit me comes into play.
     
  4. rifleman1

    rifleman1 New Member

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    100 years of reliability is just one of many reasons why there a very good weapon choice.
     
  5. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    I own Glocks and 1911's. While Glocks and other polymer frame guns may be more practical in today's environment, there's still nothing quite like a 1911.

    The 1911 is a single action semi auto, which means the trigger pull is very short and crisp.

    It is easy to work on and customize if you're familiar with the design and how it works.

    The single stack magazine of a 1911 allows the gun to be thinner than today's thick, blocky pistols and therefore, more easily concealed.

    They just feel like a "real" gun.

    Some cops DO carry 1911's.

    It's just a very well designed gun. Yes, it has low ammo capacity by today's standards but, IMO for the 1911 to still be one of the most popular handguns on the market after 100 years, John Browning must have done something right. :D

    Yes, 1911's are often more expensive than polymer guns because, being an all metal gun, there is more machining and careful fitting of parts. As opposed to a poly frame, which is just squirted into a mold.

    Many people are more accurate with a 1911 than with any other pistol.

    Many people don't like the fact that many pistols nowadays don't have a manual safety, they prefer the 1911 which has a manual thumb safety and a grip safety.


    Basically it comes down to 2 reasons, personal preference, and the long history of the gun.

    I've tried to explain it to the best of my ability, but words alone cannot describe what it's like to shoot a 1911. The best thing I can tell you is find a range that will let you rent one and try it out:D
     
  6. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    When comparing the 1911 specifically to a Glock the external safeties of the 1911 are a big difference to many people. There are many threads that go into details on the differences related to the safeties.
     
  7. BlindOldMan

    BlindOldMan New Member

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    - I've never owned a 1911, so I'm wondering - what is the fuss about?
    Someone mentioned the years of history. 100 years, in fact.


    - I would think that a Glock is less likely to rust. Rumor has it that 1911's don't feed hollow points as well, but any truth to that? 1911's are larger weopons that are more difficult to conceal - at least it appears that way by the eye test.

    Modern 1911s with modern coatings are pretty good. Plastic doesn't rust, true, but the weight of the 1911 is a reason many choose it for competitive shooting. I actually looked at adding weight to my Glocks for precisely this reason. Glocks/XDs are usually thicker, sometimes considerably thicker so it's a wash as far as concealability.

    - I understand that you can customize a 1911 much easier than something like a Glock, but how important is it to have a different color handle or something?

    Grip size is very much a personal preference. Until the Gen4 Glocks with the interchangeable backstrap, you didn't have much of a choice. Now luckily for me, my fingers are somewhat stubby with a long palm, so the stock Glock grip fits well. But if you weren't born with so lucky and beautiful a hand as mine, then the 1911 would be easier to customize.


    - I know it sounds like I'm trying to flame 1911's here, but no one in my family has a 1911. Is there a benefit or is it because of the long heritage that people like 1911s? Maybe it just feels better?

    A poor design doesn't survive 100 years.. and after 100 years, the smaller issues get worked out.

    - There are military grade 1911s, but the police carry Glocks yes?

    Police carry Glocks, among others, for various reasons, but one of the biggest reasons is cost. They are relatively inexpensive, reliable, and boring. Like driving a Camry. There's arguably nothing wrong with driving a Camry, but you don't see a lot of Camrys at the Homestead race track near my house :/.

    Now I'm not bashing Glocks at all. I own several of them, and even multiples of the same model. But the 1911s are gorgeous, shoot well, and have tradition.
     
  8. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    LEO's in some areas are limited to what is authorized by their EXPERT or cost. The only thing I would opt for when talking about LEO handguns is the caliber.
     
  9. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I have owned one Glock, a model 19. It was a very good and dependable pistol. My friend bought it from me and has thousands of rounds through it without a problem. I would even consider a model 26 for CCW.

    However, I prefer a 1911 all around. Why? Because it has a better trigger, it's slimmer, it points more naturally, it has two mechanical safeties plus the one between my ears and it just feels right and natural in my hands. 100 years of tradition really does mean something to me. Granted, my opinion is quite subjective, but it's all I have.
     
  10. Olympus

    Olympus New Member

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    There's a lot more to customizing a 1911 than just the grips. There's a reason that Brownell's makes a whole catalog dedicated to 1911 parts and pieces.

    1911s come in a variety of shapes and sizes. You have the goverment model (5" barrel with a full frame), the commander model (4.25" model with a full frame), officer model (3.5" barrle with a smaller frame), and the CCO and Defender models also. You can get bull barrels, reverse recoil plugs, full length guide rods, extended mag release buttons, extended slide stops/release, extended safeties, ambidexterous safeties, and the list goes on an on. You can bobtail the frame for better concealability, dehorn the edges, undercut the trigger guard. Have you looked at the top race guns? 1911s that are so customized that you can barely recognize them.

    Ever wondered why there are so many 1911 photo threads and so few Glock photo threads? There's a reason.

    Nothing at all wrong with Glocks, but shoot a 1911 you'll see what you're missing.
     
  11. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    A lot of the fuss has to do with history. The 1911 is a combat proven workhorse that has a powerful cartridge with a proven track record. Another aspect is the grip angle, which makes the 1911 a natural "pointer" and easy to line up the sights. Finally the trigger allows the pistol to be very accurate. There are lots of myths and old wife's tales associated with "old Slab Sides," most of which are false. Find someone who has a 1911 and ask if you can shoot it. Then you will know.

    As for what police officers carry, that varies from department-to-department. There is no "standard" police pistol. Many officers do carry the Glock, but officers don't always have a choice. Some departments require certain pistols, some others are more open minded and let officers decide, within certain standards. I was able to choose my own sidearm for most of my career. I began with a S&W model 19 .357 mag, then transitioned to a S&W mod. 59 9mm in the mid 80's and finally to a S&W mod. 4006, .40 S&W caliber in the early 90's. Just before I retired from active service, my department issued Sig Saur 226 & 229's. During most of that time I had a 1911 as an off-duty gun.

    I still own a 1911, and at times carry it, but my every day, go-to, carry gun is either a S&W 457, .45 acp, in wintertime, or Springfield XD sub compact, .40 S&W during warmer weather.

    When some department issue firearms to officers, it isn't always about what is best for the streets, but what is most cost effective.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    not true. glocks have steel parts just like 1911s. the frame is plastic but the slide of a glock is steel. no advantage.

    my colt series 70 will feed empty cases hollow points wadcutters fmj. i dont think a glock can feed empty fired cases.

    glocks are wider than 1911's making glocks harder to conceal. its the slide/frame width that determines how easy pistols are to conceal.

    personal preference i like either hogue rubber grips or a nice checkered wood grip. i dont like the hard plastic glock grip which can lead to losing control of the gun if your hands are sweaty.

    most people like the quick follow up low muzzle flip you get from an all steel 1911. the 1911 has a better grip angle than glock making the 1911 a natural pointer. more people are able to handle the thinner grip than the fat chunky glock grip.

    police carry glocks because they are cheap. thats about it. a civilian police department is the very last place i would look for a recommendation on firearm choices. they are usually 2-3 decades behind and often make choices based off political pressure than what is good for the individual officer.

    quality costs money hence the cheap price of glocks...
     
  13. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    I think thats one of those "IF YOU HAVE TO ASK" questions :rolleyes:

    No one can really give you a answer------TRY ONE :cool:
     
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Now guys. Easy. Down in the front row, we don't need to scare the new man outright.

    Okay.

    The Glock. It's about 30-35 years old. It's on it's 4th generation design. It's plastic and it was designed by a guy who used to design bathroom fixtures. The handle is ergonomically "difficult" and puts the barrel at a "unique" relation to where the hand grips the pistol.

    That said, the thing will go bang every time that you pull the trigger. It can be taken in mud and saltwater and all sorts of stupid sh*t that you would never do with a pistol and it will still fire. It's a perfect pistol for "the masses".

    If you want to shoot more than you clean, more than you maintain, the Glock is for you.

    The 1911.

    For over 100 years, it was designed and first produced in the early 1890's, the 1911 stamp is when the military officially adopted it, the pistol has been the Gold Standard in .45 ACP performance and pistols in general.

    Young men rarely appreciate the 1911 platform. I know I didn't. It's a single stack. It's an old man's gun. It needs a lot of custom features to work. I can buy (6) Glocks for a 'good' 1911. It's just plain, "old".

    Some of those statements are true. I would never claim otherwise. But a lot of them are bias.

    A properly tuned 1911, regardless of name, is a Ferrari. The Glock is a Mustang.

    They can do the same thing, they can travel on the same roads, they can drive you to the same spots. The difference is that the Ferrari is unique, it's special and it handles like it was designed with YOU in mind.

    The Glock? Well, not so much, but it will still get the job done.

    Me? I have shot every Glock they have put on the market up thru Gen 3. I don't care for them. But that is me. If you shoot one, you might LOVE them.

    The key is for you to go and shoot a plethora of guns and see what feels the best TO YOU.

    We can't tell you what is going to get the job done for you, or what is going to feel right, or what is going to be the RIGHT gun for you.

    Having tried to be fair and balanced up to this point, my final thought is:

    JD (Still in Houston)
     

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  15. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I, too, started with a Glock 19 and wondered what the deal was with the 1911. There are some VERY aggressive 1911ers around here, but even through their raw spear pointed arguments, I saw some time-proven truths. There are even more mild mannered and extremely helpful 1911 believers whose experiences convinced me.

    I came to the 1911 by realizing that the .45acp round fit my needs better than 9mm. Then, I realized I wanted steel in my hand.

    I am not a tinkerer, though. I didn't, personally, buy 4 1911's because I wanted to bling them out with special parts. I bought them because the moment I did, followed by the moment I fired it, followed by the moment I stripped and cleaned it, I was hooked by JMB's design.

    Financially I had to sell the G19 to buy my first 1911, but there is a place for both in your collection. No need to choose one or the other.

    Buy both!
     
  16. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    Ya know, it seems that most people that like 1911's don't like Glock (mostly because of the grip angle). I guess I'm weird but I like them both and I shoot them both equally well. If I could only have two pistols, I would have to choose my Springfield 1911 and my G19.
     
  17. shooter57

    shooter57 New Member

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    for me they're more accurate and more fun to shoot at the range but I still prefer a fool proof high capacity plastic gun to protect myself.
     
  18. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    Reasons why 1911a1?

    Why 1911a1,

    That is a complex responce, mine stems from decades of carry! I've always carried a 5" or 4" 1911a1 or BHP, I do like the Grip angle and SA carry Loced and Cocked has Never Bothered me! I did try a Glock I carred a 17 and 19 and the Full to empty weight and Ballance shift bothered me! Plus on 1911a1 I need no real special tools to work on them! Glock and Sig Both needed them? I keep a simple set of replacment parts for Both 1911a1 and BHP and can and do replace them as I need! Parts for Glock now easier to find, and get but some are still Glock armoror only,and I'mnot 1? LOL

    RON
     
  19. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Why one over the other? It will come down to personal taste, and only you can decide.

    I own more 1911s than Glocks, but prefer Glocks for all serious use. They work every time. Glocks are essentially impervious to environmental issues.

    JD mentioned that Glocks are on their 4th version, which should be viewed as a good thing. But I still prefer the Gen1 Glock 17 to all those that have followed. The basic design of the Glock has not changed, however.

    And 1911s have also gone through many upgrades and changes. From 1911 to 1911A1, to Series 70, to Series 80, etc.

    Check out the list of changes made to the S&W Model 10 some time if you want to see a design that has evolved. Amazing.

    Gun designs evolve.

    Many people are under the misconception that all Police officers are gun experts and shooters. Not true. Very few police officers are "gun people" anymore. So the issue of firearms training comes into play. Glocks have a very simple manual of arms that is easy to teach and easy to learn. They are consistent, and simple. And very early on Glocks were far easier to transition officers to, from DA revolvers. That was attractive to Police Departments and helped give the Glock a leg up on the competition. Many excellent pistol designs have come along since the Glocks took over the LEO market, but they are all playing "catch up". Glock set the stage.

    The money that is saved by making the Glock frame out of polymer gets reinvested on the cost of the steel components (and their manufacturing) of the Glock. Bar stock slides, hammer forged barrels, and Tenifer inside and out. Glock used Tenifer for years before anyone else came close (Melonite, M80HT, etc). I have considered having one of my 1911s M80HT'd, just because.

    I was passionate about 1911s while growing up and had an aptitude for guns in general, so the manual of arms for a 1911 was no problem. But I have friends who ARE gun guys that get frustrated in disassembling and reassembling 1911s and they can strip a Glock with no problem.

    As a lifelong 1911 user, it took me a couple of years to get comfortable with a Glock when they first came out. New shooters don't have that problem (no muscle memory to re-learn), and I find that about 9 out of 10 of them prefer the grip angle of the Glock over the 1911. In my classes, everyone gets the chance to try all of my guns. Most stay with the Glock of their own choice.

    The Glock was not the first pistol to use that grip angle, by the way. It was used by Georg Luger in his legendary P08 (Luger), the Type 14 Nambus, Bill Ruger chose it for the the Standard Model .22 (Mk1, Mk2, etc), High Standard used it for many of their most popular .22s, the Benelli B76 had it, and others as well. Those guns were all praised for their inherent "pointability". When the 1911 was upgraded to the 1911A1 one of the upgrades included an arched mainspring housing. That was done to enhance the pointing characteristics of the pistol.

    You can take 35 Glock pistols of the same model number, detail strip them, dump all the parts into one big box and mix them up. You can then reassemble 35 Glocks from random parts and all 35 will work perfectly.

    You cannot do that with 50+ 1911s (1911s have more parts than a Glock).

    You can take a .40SW Glock and drop a 9mm top end onto it and it will work 100%. You can put a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel in a Glock .40, swap the mags and the gun will run perfectly. You can do the same with a .357Sig barrel in a Glock .40. That can give someone the ability to have one gun on a budget, but fire multiple calibers from it for a nominal expense. Very versatile.

    Both pistols cycle fast, and have short trigger reset. Both are accurate. Both are durable.

    At the end of the day, they are both excellent choices for many reasons. I love the "artform" of the 1911, but the durable, yet refined utility of the Glock.

    I keep a Glock 17 on my nightstand for serious use. There are no mysteries to the Glock. They are boringly dependable. But when I'm sitting on the couch "playing" with a gun it is almost always a 1911. The 1911 is sly, and sexy. A 1911 is impossible to walk past without picking up (for me), while I can walk past a Glock because odds are that it will be like all the rest of them.

    Aside from chipped extractors, I've never even broken a part on a Glock. I've broken too many 1911 parts to mention.

    I own lots of 1911s, and lots of Glocks and love them all.
     
  20. Poof38

    Poof38 New Member

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    I'm from the old school, so I'm not a fan of plastic guns. There are no aesthetics (I would say butt ugly, but I wouldn't want to offend) to much of the blocky pistols out there and the micro guns don't fit in your hand and are tough to shoot. My aresenal functions well, gives me good accuracy and they look good to me. So here we are. If you like your choices in firepower, great. To each his own and happy shooting.