Bear Defence Arms and Calibers

Discussion in 'Hunting Forum' started by Norwegian, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    Hi! Im wondering what is suitable for defence against big bears(kodiak, grizzly, polar) bear.

    I hear that many people uses 44 mag revolvers, but what i see is that the maximum energy you can get with that caliber, is around 2000 joule(with 340 grains bullets). Is that really enough? I know that these are heavy bullets, but still, is that enough power?

    Many people uses big caliber bolt rifles. What do you think is the smallest caliber to use for such a purpose? My biggest caliber is a 30-06, is that big enough? If so, what ammo should i use?

    I also have a 870, and think that this would be the ultimate bear-defence gun for me, due the is ruggedness, reliability and the fact that it is easier to operate when the adrenaline is pumping, then bolt rifles. Are the slugs deadly enough? Anyone knows how much energy is produced by a slug? What kinds of slugs would be best? I have only gotten the smooth - standard barrel.
     
  2. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

    4,360
    0
    0
    For "defense" I'm assuming you are talking within 20-30 yards or less.

    A 12 ga. shotgun with any modern saboted or rifled slug is very potent bear medicine. Here I would also choose 3" magnum shells!

    A .30-06 is also potent medicine, but I'd choose the pump shotgun for ease of operation and reload. I wouldn't want to rely on a single round to stop a big bear.
     

  3. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    1
    0
    "what i see is that the maximum energy you can get with that caliber, is around 2000 joule(with 340 grains bullets)."
    Ok, In Germany, law resquires a rifle bullet must travel at 2000 jules at 100 meters for large game to include large Russian boar and Red Deer. Germans are very methodical in figuring what is needed take down an animal. Now, a typical .308 is about 160g and carries a force of 2600 joules. I take down large boar with a single shot from a .308. So I recon if you are at a closer range, you can do a lot of damage with a larger grain bullet traveling only 600 juoles slower then a .308. Plus, .44 is a more managable then say a .50 for many. More control, accuracy and less flinching. Quicker if you need a second shot.
     
  4. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    Thanks for answers!

    Yes I was thinking about somewhere around 20-30 meters.

    So you think the pump is the way to go? Heard that alaskan guides carries 870 loaded with slugs, is that true?

    Are there any reports of slugs killing bears?

    Is there a big difference between 3" and 3,5" slugs in terms of stopping power and energy produced?
     
  5. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

    7,715
    196
    63
    Norwiegian,

    The 44 Mag Hangun or other weapon of that type is only good for last resort backup protection in my opinion. Anyone that goes Grizzly or Kodiak hunting better be thinking of a rifle from around 338 Win. and up calibers. Most people do not believe how big and tuff they actualy are and how much determination they have even after being shot with good placement. So if that was my plan to Grizzly or Kodiak hunt as you stated, Bigger is Better!

    03
     
  6. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    Sniper03,

    I have to agree with you that 338 and up must be good for hunting, as it kills faster, which means more humane and secure kill.

    But for the purpose of defence within 50m/50yds, the slug may even be better than a bolt action of some of the higher calibers, due to projectile weight(around 1oz). Im not stating, only wondering.
     
  7. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    1
    0
    Try shooting a rifle at extremely close or point blank range. Not easy. A hunting rifle is not made for these circumstances. I have seen hunters get run over by boars before they could get their rifles up. It is easy to get "inside" the weapon perimeter. Bears are just as fast and will surprise you very quickly. A handgun is more appropriate.
     
  8. Dearhunter

    Dearhunter Supporting Member Supporter

    1,915
    20
    38
    Well, I will stick with my S&W 44 mag as a "just in case" protection.
    DSCN0629_resized.jpg
     
  9. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,677
    390
    83
    The 44 magnum pistol is not reliable for taking down a large bear. You might kill the bear but more than likely it will kill you before it dies. The 454 Casull is minimum in a handgun. I carried either a 12 gauge pump with Brenneke slugs or a marlin 336 in 35 Remington. Usually the pump. The Brenneke slug was specific because of its construction. I carried them in my hand. If a bear attacks you will have little warning and will not have time to unsling a rifle. You need short and fast unless of course you are hunting them. Today my choice would be a hot loaded Marlin in 45-70 or 450 Marlin. A short barreled 12 gauge double would not be out of the question since they are faster for 2 shots than a pump and that is probably all you are going to get. I knew one crazy guide that carried a 10 gauge 30" double. He would jam the gun into the bear and pull both triggers. He said it would roll the bear. Some of the guides were carrying African double rifles. Remember, they have to protect their clients.
     
  10. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

    6,489
    0
    0
    The .44 Mag. is most often carried for Grizz. During an attack your shots will be measured in inches not meters. It is as stated the last resort from a Bear attack. In a Bear attack you will most likely drop your shotgun or rifle during the first charge.
    A handgun in a strong holster carried above the waist and in front may provide access during the mauling. Handguns carried low on the side may be difficult to reach when being thrown about like a rag doll.:eek:
     
  11. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    Don't use anything too large; you want to make sure the bear suffers some.
    ;)

    But seriously, bless all of you and your happy bear-killing thoughts. :)
     
  12. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    I wrote: "I have to agree with you that 338 and up must be good for hunting, as it kills faster, which means more humane and secure kill. "

    So please read before being sarcastic.
     
  13. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    I know & knew what you posted; I was encouraging you to take your time and enjoy watching the bear die whenever possible and without undue risk to yourself. It was not sarcasm, merely a request for a bit of sadism when dealing with the ursine scum. I mean it when I say that "the only good bear is a dead bear", though I do respect your right to disagree.
     
  14. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

    12,980
    418
    83
    I wouldn't want the minimum to ward off a polar bear. How about a .458 Lott?
     
  15. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    1
    0
    Wait, actively hunting bears and protection from bears are two separate things. Both call for different techniques and weapon systems. A hiker is not going to carry a rifle, because he is carrying a lot already. A handgun makes more sense. A hunter tracks or ambushes his game, which gives him time to make his shot without worrying about dying. A rifle makes more sense. The question is protection from bears, not hunting bears. When I go on long hikes, I can not imagine also carrying my CZ-550 all over the place. Oh, polar bears are a different matter. The tundra is pretty open and less chance of surprising a bear. Rifles make more sense. Plus, you will need to hunt if survival is called for. The game can sense you out in the open, so handgun might not help. Yet, maybe it is better to walk around the polar bears. The thread cracks me up though. Why are we hating on bears throughout? Did I miss something?
     
  16. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    Of course i disagree with you. Bears are beautiful, and deserves their place in nature as any other animal. Though i see value in keeping some populations under control to keep nature balanced.

    I Norway there really arent a lot of bears, though we have small but sustainable polar- and brown bear(similar to grizzly) populations. I pray that ill never have to shoot one.
     
  17. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    1
    0
    Germany has some small brown bears in the Alps. Never heard of problems with them though.
     
  18. Norwegian

    Norwegian New Member

    56
    0
    0
    How is hunting regulated in germany? Can you hunt bear?

    In Norway we have to have a special permission. Ecologist work out how many bears can be shot each year, so there is a limit on how many permissions are given.
     
  19. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    1
    0
    Hunting license courses can take a year and is expensive. You need to know biology, conservation, weapon and hunting laws, history, weapon and caliber history, correct caliber for hunting different game, hunting culture, hunting language, diseases and parasites, how to process the animals. The test takes all day. You also have to take a shooting test with pistol, rifle, and shotgun. There are five disciplines with a percent to hit. It involves running targets at 100 meters with the rifle. The shotgun also has a running rabbit and clay shooting. Once again there is a percentage of shots. The shooting test is effing hard! I bet most Leos would fail. There are state and private Reviers. Everything costs and is regulated. Hunting is still for the rich in Germany, I am not rich. You still pay for the meat even if you shoot the animal (oay revier owner)If you own hunting rights on the revier it could cost between 500 to 1000€ a year, but you keep what you shoot. Each revier owner has a harvest plan that must be met. If game from a revier damages land in surrounding community, the revier owner must pay damages. Boar damage a lot of farms. We can not hunt bear.
     
  20. hoovco

    hoovco New Member

    665
    0
    0
    I've heard of people using bells and pepper spray as a deterrent.

    I've also heard a lot of grizzly bears sh*t bells and their breath smells like pepper spray.