Bayonet and barrel

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by unclebear, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    I have a mosin nagant 91/30 the bayonet is kind ruff getting on and off takes some force, the question is by taking it on and off can I loosen the barrel?
     
  2. VitSports6

    VitSports6 New Member

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    Hard to say if you can loosen the barrel, I don't imagine it would.
    Technically, IIRC as per Russian Military, The bayonet was never suppose to come off, If in the field.
    I ran some sand paper through my Bayonet hole to make it easier to remove, No, I'm not going to use it as it was intended, It is still difficult to remove, But not as much as it use to be.
    Good luck.
     

  3. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    As mentioned, Russians designed the bayonet to go on and stay on. Rifle is sighted with bayo installed so POI will change slightly at distance without it.

    To answer your question, no you shouldn't loosen the barrel. If it is a nuisance try spreding the "wings" on the bayonet slightly so that it doesn't grip the barrel as tightly as it does now. Just be sure not to spread them too much or it may become dangerously loose. Avoid messing with the barrel, the bayo is much easier and less expensive to replace. :)
     
  4. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    thanks for the advice, i love the way the gun looks with the bayonet on, but I didn't want to hurt the gun by using it.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I play around with my bayonet quite a bit, especially when I'm showing it off to someone who hasn't seen one.

    The sandpaper option is a good one, and more likely to work as intended.
    The Russians DID sight them in with the bayonet on as noted, and were only intended to be removed during long term storage or vehicle transport, so yes, by the operating manual (if there was ever one published), it is supposed to be fired with it attached.

    However, as in so many things, individual results/mileage may vary. Mine shoots the same POA/POI with and without the bayonet, at least to about 100 yards or so. Beyond that I don't know, haven't had the opportunity to try it out. And some people get a difference of up to 8 feet between POA/POI when the attach or remove the bayonet. Usually it seems to be about 4-6 inches per hundred yards.

    Oh and I'm pretty sure it takes special tool to clamp the receiver and a LOT of torque to remove the barrel. If you can still take the bayonet off by hand then I'm almost positive you aren't hurting anything.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    I THINK the question was not about how to loosen the barrel, it was whether fixing and removing bayonet would, in and of itself, loosen the barrel.

    And no, it should not. If the fit is THAT tight, get a 6 inch length of dowel, saw cut a slit in one end. Cut a 6 inch strip of fine grit wet-or-dry sandpaper about 2 inches wide. Fold so that gritty side is out, leaving you a 1x6 strip. Insert into the slit of the dowel, chuck into a drill, wrap paper snugly around dowel, slip into ring of bayonet. Put 2 drops pf light oil on paper, spin the drill for about 30 seconds, moving it in and out. Flush grit from bayonet. Inside should be nice and smooth. Try fit on rifle. Repeat once or twice if needed. Poor man's hone.
     
  7. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I still keep reading that the Soviets sighted the rifle w/ the bayonet attached. OK look at history. Why would you sight a rifle that has the ability to shoot your foe w/ a last ditch pike attached. The reason the bayonets are so tight is they were "not" used attached to the rifle. Stating they were never intended to be removed is internet speculation and BS. Will someone prove me wrong and post the Soviet field manual on the 91/30!! Why if the 91/30 was "sighted" w/ the bayonet attached would the PU 91/30 be picked from the best high wall 91/30 shooters. Snipers were not issued bayonets. If your putting a bayonet on, it is getting personal and up close.
     
  8. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    You can open it up with a tapered shaft or punch.
     
  9. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered this too.... Maybe because theres no scabbards or frogs for Mosin bayonets?:confused:
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    That is because they were not standard issue. They were issued like ammo, only if needed. Steel was a commodity that was precious, as was leather.
     
  11. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I misrepresented this myself with my earlier post. This standard was supposed to have applied to the m44 and other models that had the permanently attached bayonet. I ASSUMED (we all know what that means) that it applied to all the different models.

    Now I don't know about everyone else, but personally I wasn't there. This is all basically hear say found from a number of different INTERNET sources, and we can't believe everything we read there.
     
  12. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

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    Hello Mr. Patterson,

    I respect you and your knowledge, and very rarely do I disagree with you. However, Soviet Military Doctrine did indeed specify that the bayonet be mounted.

    The Soviets, up through World War II (when the idea came under attack), subscribed to their "cold steel doctrine" which stated (paraphrasing) that the rifle is a vehicle for the bayonet.

    As I go through my books I'll add more sources, but you might check out

    Soviet Strategic Thought, 1917-91

    where it describes the tradition of the infantry bayonet charge and the cavalry's use of the sword.

    Regards Sir,

    Josh
     
  13. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The thing about Mosin Nagant rifles/bayonets is: some fit fine, some are tight and some feel like they are welded on. It is all part of the beast.

    You can open up the bayonet as suggested or better yet, leave that one mounted and get another rifle to go with it. I had to buy over 20 before I found one that fit just right. :)
     
  14. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    There is no way any military "sighted" a rifle w/ a bayonet. A last ditch weapon. A bayonet charge is not a 200 yard shot. With all of your 91/30 experiments, you really have not found what makes it tick? Sure the doctrine of the en-mass charge did exist, but it was not the sole purpose of the rifle, just the last option, or having so many men they were expendable.
     
  15. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not to be argumentative for the sake of it, but why do you think it was not Soviet policy to always have the bayonet mounted. Very much of the current "knowledge" of these rifles is, of course, speculation, but all of the literature that I have seen supports the notion that the bayonet stayed mounted except during transport.

    As I recall, except for snipers, most of the wartime photos I have seen show the bayonet mounted. Also, there does not appear to have been any type of scabbard in the Soviet web-gear, although there was some Finnish scabbards.

    My personal experience with shooting these rifles, and I have shot a lot of them, is that some shoot to POA with the bayonet attached, some shoot better without, but all are affected by the bayonet being mounted.
    I would honestly appreciate you citing a reference to support your claim. I am always searching for information on these guns.

    Thanks
     
  16. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I'd appreciate the reference too. I had always believed that the bayonet stayed mounted, and then changed my way of thinking because of the debate in this thread, but all the information I've found says it did. All internet references of course, I don't have a library on WWII Russia.
     
  17. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I asked for the same earlier in the thread. Pictures are photo op's. Nothing more. I have owned original WWII Soviet 91/30's, not re-builds. You could not get a bayonet on them without a hammer. No Frog, the soldier did not carry a bayonet. Where , or how do you carry a 6ft plus rifle/bayonet combo for transport. Lets stick 60 men in a cattle car w/ the bayonet attached. Lets see how many where empailed.
     
  18. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Mosin Nagant FAQs

    Q15. and Q37. I don't think that this would necessarily count as the definitive answer, but it is the largest online resource for everything Mosin Nagant that I have found. And I've been looking... A LOT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2011
  19. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    Weather the boyo was meant to stay on or not is relevant at this time. I'm somewhat of a purist when it comes to C&R guns. that being said I don't feel the bayo being on or off has anything to do with value. If you have your mosin to look at and want it mounted then by all means mount it. On the other hand I like to shoot mine, there are some ranges that don't allow removable bayonets on the range and although I wouldnt consider hunting with the bayo on there are states that have laws against it.
     
  20. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    it was relevant to the previous few posts