Battle Rifle

Well if you want some discussion, then let us start one.

Battle Rifle vs. Battle Carbine. I do not lump them into the same thing. 5.56 and 7.62x39 are Carbine rounds. To get to Rifle territory you have to get up to 6.5 and up.

As for what platform you prefer to shoot your Carbine or Rifle round from, that is a lot of personal opinion. If you have not seriously used a certain platform, then don't keep passing around what you believe to be true. Get one, use it a lot, and then pass judgment on to other. For instance, if you don't like the conventional Stoner design in an AR, then maybe a gas piston upper will suit you better. Oh, and that Mini-14.. yes I owned 2 and put them through a lot of rounds. Not one failure, and each rifle had at least 10K through it. I drug them through muck, 500+ round count days, Wolf ammo. I have also taken deer with .223, zero problems, the farthest went 20 feet. Shot placement and bullet make a big difference. I hunted Elk with a .243, and yep, all of them have gone down right where I shot them. Well, there was one that went 30 yards... The neighbor girl (14) borrowed the rifle since she could not shoot the .270 that her dad got her 2 years ago. So far, 4 deer, 2 Antelope, and 2 Elk.

I cannot and will not comment on the AK series. I have never owned one, much less shot one.

In the Rifle class, there is the Garand, M1A, FAL, Cetme, HK91, AR-10, and others. Each one has it's up's and downs. The reason that the CMP has not sold M14's is that the receivers are Full Auto capable. They do know how to render the receiver so that it cannot be converted, but at this time they won't do that. Of course there being a war on now and them bringing the stocks back out doesn't help much.

So what was it you wanted to discuss?

-Bidah

I'm only 30, so I don't have extensive training on the M14. It is a proven platform, firing a proven round. The issue of ammo weigh is just BS. A soldier will carry what he needs to survive. I've humped 60s and SAWs and was usually comforted by the fact that I had the extra ammo, even though it was breaking my back.

By going to a light, much less lethal round, the military assured that the 'spray and pray' technique would be used in combat. However, there have been recent stories of Marine and Army scout units equipped with M14 DMRs that were able to engage an AK equipped enemy at 800 to 1200 yards. They were able to eliminate the threat at 3 to 4 times the effective range of the AKs that the enemy forces had.

The M14s are becoming popular with USASOC snipers in current combat areas. They're willing to sacrifice a few hundred yards worth of shot distance for quick follow up and full auto operation if necessary.

Keep in mind, that should a DM/sniper's rifle fail to operate, they may not live to tell about it, so that is a testament to how much faith these guys are willing to put into a 40+ year old rifle. The SEALS are digging up all of the M14s that they can find for the NAVSPECWAR Mk14 Mod0 EBR project.

The M14 was an outstanding rifle that was killed off by politics. It's good to see that the military has realized the error of it's ways and is now trying to bring them back into service. It's a shame that the numbers aren't high enough to equip more soldiers with them.

I've had a Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad on order for about 6 months now. I wish it would hurry up and get here. Once Fulton Armory can get their M14 receivers back in stock, I'm going to order one of them also and begin construction on a Krieger heavy barreled, McMillan stocked pillar bedded bad ***.

Okay... I have shot the M-14, M-16, XM-21 sniper rifles, AK-47s, SAR-1 rifles, M-4 rifles, Mini-14s, M-1 .30 caliber carbines, various submachineguns, SMLEs in .303 caliber, 8 mm Mausers and just about everything else except for a Mosin-Nagant. For some reason I have not shot a MN rifle in 7.62 X 54R. I was first trained on an M-14, then M-16 and then an XM-21 in Viet Nam. The other rifles I got to shoot when I was either with a SF operational detachment or as a deputy sheriff. Out of all of them, my most favorite is the M-14 family of rifles which include the M-14, the XM-21, M-21 and M-1A rifles in 7.62 NATO. Trouble with the M-14 type rifles is that you can not carry as much ammo as you can with an AK-47 type rifle or M-16/M-4 type carbine. The most fun to shoot is the M-1 .30 caliber carbine. The most accurate is the M-1A. The most relibale rifles are the AK-47, FN/FAL and the M-1A rifles. Out of the 3, the AK is probably the most dependable of all 3 of them. So, what dictates which rifle I would use in a bad situation? Two things: the general terrain and tactics I'll be using.

If I were to be fighting in a built up area, I would like to have an AK type rifle to use. Shooting distances in a city, town or village are generally short... say well under 200 yards in most cases... and you need a decent round to sometimes punch through a little wood or plaster board. The 7.62 X 39 has the punch needed to get the job done. It was designed for built-up area combat.

If I were going to fight over a long distance area like some plains or steppes of Russia, I would want either a scoped M-1A/AR-10 in 7.62 NATO/.308 or a scoped M-16 type rifle. I would be looking at shooting long distances for some of my shots so I would want good accuracy.

If I were going to be working in the mountains of eastern Tennessee or in the Rockies I would probably want a quality FN/FAL rifle with a scope of some sort mounted on it.

In a desert environment, I would probably want an M-1A with a scope on it. If I have to move around a whole lot, then I would probably wish for a scoped M-16 rifle in spite of the wimp factor of the .223/5.56 bullet. Knowing what I know about the different rifles, I understand that I might have to go to head shots with the .223/5.56 rifle at distances under 150 yards or so in order to stay alive.

To me, rifles are tools that one uses to do a job. You need the right rifle for the right job. Sure, I know that some people will disagree with my choices for the different jobs but those are MY choices based on what I've trained to do and have experienced. So, explain to me what your choices are....

The problem with the M14 was that the ...average...soldier could not handle it in full auto. Garands were fine because they were semi-auto. Get a Beretta M-59 as a full auto Garand...and you are back to handling problems. My F/A M14 is a two shot burst weapon for me. Beyond two, it becomes a bird gun. Great for "whithering field of fire" if you don't have a BAR, but an ammo waster in the hands of the average grunt. The M-16 in Vietnam was able to lay down thousands of "spray and pray" rounds for every enemy killed. You see footage of our grunts holding their M16 over the brim and dumping a mag in the general direction of the enemy. Wasted alot of ammo, but couldn't do the same with the M14 (except waste ammo). Today the M14 is where it should be...Spec Ops. In the hands of a few highly trained individuals who can use it to best advantage. F/A is probably used only when the SHTF and suppressing fire is called for.