Barrels

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by bushmaster74, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    Shopping for a heavy barrel for my ar. Does anyone have any input on stag arms barrels. Lookin at a 24" crowned setup any info would be appreciated


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  2. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    I not sure who makes RRA barrels but have seen a couple stock rifles shooting .300 groups while working on crony reading for new loads. What bullet weight , chamber profile are you looking for. 223 wylde or comparable.

    Lots of very good barrels to pick from. Check out kreiger, white oak, and Wilson arms barrels . Wilson did make RRA's barrel.

    May this page will help you
    http://www.hotsheet.com/search_resu...6&cof=FORID:10&ie=ISO-8859-1&sa=Search&q=best ar match barrels#
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    wilson still makes rra barrels and they are damn good. wilson arms is no relation to wilson combat. two are often confused.
     
  4. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    223-5.56 is what I'm looking for. I like the looks and price range on the stag arms. But not sure of quality


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  5. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    would putting a 24 in barrel on my ar have any effect on my reciever?
     
  6. Werminator

    Werminator Member

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    Bush, not to be rude but you have clearly already made up your mind that the 24" heavy is the way you want to go. You have asked questions about this "upgrade" in 3 seperate threads and it would seem you simply haven't had anyone say that they think its the way to go so you keep asking. If you are resting this bad boy then the length of the barrel should not have much effect on your receiver since the rest will be supporting much of the weight, but as has been suggested already, the 18-20 inch range is not a bad place to be. You stated your rifle came with an 18 to start with so I would think long and hard about other areas that affect accuracy before swapping your barrel. How about upgrading the trigger, which in my opinion is one of the biggest areas your could benefit from. Also, perhaps try some different loads from the stock setup to see if you can find a load that your rifle likes without having to spend the money on the barrel. Just my opinion but if the looks are your thing and the 24 appeals to you in that way then I say go for it but if you want to spend your money on performance I think there are other places I would start first.
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have to agree.

    how many shots have you even taken with this rifle yet?

    have your even tested it to see how accurate it is to begin with?

    are you just making an assumption that going to a longer barrel is going to increase it's accuracy?

    just changing ammo or reloading ammo that fine tunes the ammo to a particular firearm can increase accuracy by huge degree.

    and you do understand that changing the barrel is going to require either buying the tools to change out the barrel or even paying someone to change it out and properly set up the headspace so it operates safely.

    too many times we see a person get a new gun, and they want to make modifications right from the get go, before they have even evaluated whether something needs to be changed to make it better and just assume it needs to be changed to be better.
     
  8. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    I'm changing the barrel cause I want to. I don't like the stock barrel with fixed front sight. I'm real sorry if I'm an inconvenience to you all. I didn't know it was a big deal to ask questions. I see on other thread about 24 barrel do funny things to reciever but never explained any further. So I asked the question on this thread to see if I got response. I'm still figure in out what length I want. I know 20 is more than enough. Was just goin for look. Real sorry I posted anything at all. In future I will not


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  9. Werminator

    Werminator Member

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    Hey Bush, don't take my post as derogatory... just weighing in honestly since I keep seeing the conversation come up in several threads. Longer barrels add weight to the rifle and a longer arm on which that weight is held... think about carrying a gallon of milk close to your body and then holding it out at full arms length, the weight seems greater and adds stress to your body to maintain the same height. Similarly your received will have added stresses placed on it by hanging weight ouy further. And then you also said you might throw on a bipod, which when in use supports some of that weight but if not in use increases it even further and will be way out front!
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    well no reason to get your feelings hurt, just becasue you're not getting the answers that coincide with your thinking.

    some of us are just pointing out the realities of adding a much longer barrel or what purpose or gains it would serve by not doing so.

    simple fact is, it's your rifle and if you want to put a longer barrel on simply for looks, than that is purely your choice.

    IIRC, i think your other concern was accuracy. the added expense of the parts, tools or labor to put a longer barrel on may not even yield any appreciable gains in accuracy after it's all said and done.
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Its hard for me to keep track of conversations if they stretch over several.threads.

    Anyway what i meant by it doimg funky stuff. Is the weight of the barrel can be a problem when you go super long in a ar15. It can cause bad harmonics to show up since the barrel only sits in a smooth hole in the receiver held in by pressure of a nut only. You start to get some warp going on.

    The other thing is extending the barrel too far out (21+ inches) tends to have a negative effect on accuracy. The longer the barrel the more it can whip around as the bullet travels down the tube. Shorter thick barrels are more rigid and a bit better at giving repeatable shots as they heat up and cool down.

    You see 24+ barrels in varmint guns not because of the long range accuracy but because a longer barrel has more mass so it heats up a bit slower allowing a few more shots before the prairie dogger has to let it cool.

    Ive got about a half dozen ar15 of different types. The most accurate are 20" barrels followed very closely by 18" ones.

    The 556/223 is a 600 yard cartridge. Adding 4 more inches is not going to get you to 700... it really does nothing except in my add negatives. More weight and more vibration.

    You can build how you want i just think its a huge mistake hanging a long barrel on a ar15.

    Way back military arms makers used long barrels to get the front sight as far out as they could to increase sight radius of iron sights. Today we dont need to do that and using a good optic means we do not have to hamstring our rifles with over long barrels in order to line up on a distant target.

    Using iron sights length means accuracy because the margin of error of iron sights is far greater than the negative effects of a long barrel. In other words the barrel can outshoot the user with iron sights.

    When you use a modern optical system you start to run into a situation where its possible for the user to outshoot the mechanicalmaccuracy of the barrel and thats where shorter barrels show their benefit

    So this brings us back to the ar15. Sights are limited by the either the length of the handguard or length of the gas system. So you get no benefit from extending an ar15 barrel since your not going much past a max of a 18" sight radius.
     
  12. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    I know I had two threads. One being barrel length and one asking about stag arms barrel quality. I should have stuck with one thread but didn't think about it. I just like the look of a 24 in barrel. But if it's gonna tear my gun up I'm not gonna Just wanted a pros opinion I've got several 20 inch barrels. Just was thinking something different and like the look. I don't want to be a bother to you and my feeling not hurt. You guys are helping I know I'm not gonna get more accuracy and I know it's gonna be heavier. Just don't wanna hurt the gun. I like the look of the stag arms barrel. But if they are junk I'll pursue another company. Am leaning for a 20 in still just unsure


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  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Your reading too much into my opinion. The longer barrels aren't junk and won't hurt your rifle they just aren't optimal.

    Meaning all things the same a 20" krieger 7.7 twist fluted 7r stainless barrel will outshoot the exact same barrel in a 24" model in terms of accuracy across a wider range of bullets powders and environmental conditions.

    If you are doing because you like the looks do it. I'm just trying to save you some heartache if your thinking length equals accuracy.

    Long 24" barrels like the small light 40-50 grain bullets more running room more rotational speed to point. At varmint ranges up to 300 yards they do fine. Which is why you tend to see those barrels in a 1-12 twist.

    55-69 grain bullets do well in in 16-20 inch barrels in 1-7 to 1-9 twist rates.

    If you go 24 be sure its a fluted barrel as that adds rigidity and will offset some of the barrel whip from the extra weight and length.

    But your not bugging us. Questions are good.

    The other issue is balance. I like my rifles to balance at the front edge of the magwell or back.

    I just think the rra barrels are better as they chambered in 223wylde and cryo treated and individual air gauge inspected and come in 1-8 twist. My rra match ar15 A2 is a consistent 3/4 moa at 300yards iron sights. It has the rra/wilson barrel in 20" I run 69grain smk over win748 powder and wolf 223 primers.

    I kinda kick myself for not getting that rifle in flattop so I can see what it would do with an optic...
     
  14. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    So if I were to buy a 24 in with 1-8 twist could I still vary bullet weights. Would 55 grain be alright? I usually shoot 55 or 62 grain


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  15. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Do you have an expectation of what a 24" heavy barrel will do that yours does not?? 55 to 62gr is not match grade bullet weights nor varmint weight so a heavy looong barrel could be money not well spent. Loading equipment would be. A 18 or 20" barrel is more than you need for 300 yards and unless your shoot 60 rounds accurate rounds at a setting a mid weight is more than enough. Heres a page to aid you with twist rates for 223/5.56- http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/12/23/pair-barrel-twist-rates-ammo/

    You do have a very good 6-24 , 8-32 up to 50 power scope 900 to 2000 dollar scope to take use of a better match barrel.
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    what type of ammo are you using now?

    unless you are using premium factory ammo or reloading match type ammo for your rifle, you may not even see any gains in accuracy going to a longer barrel.

    what is your definition of accuracy in the first place in regards to this rifle?
     
  17. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    i use the match grade ammo for hunts etc but sometime while just plinking with friends i just load up some bulk ammo like youd find at rural king cheap 55 gr to 62 grain i know its not near as accurate but cheaper than running through the expensive stuff i know the 24 is not gonna make it any more accurate than the 18 thats on it now nut just like the long look and this weapon will just be a bench plinking gun it wont be hunted and know it will be heavy and cumbersome dont have a real expensive scope on it just a 6by 24 56mm millet scope nothing special i just seen options for 1 12 or 1 8 twist and confused which one to choose for various bullet weights the chart above has helped but didnt see much on length im actually leaning towards a rra 20 in anyway but still not totally decided
     
  18. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Well you have info now in my last tread to help with a twist rate for your needs. You can then decide on what barrel you wish to spend money on . Length for 400 yards and under is somewhere between 18 and 20 is all you need. Good luck ,.
     
  19. bushmaster74

    bushmaster74 New Member

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    Thanks for the help. Sorry to be such a pain in the ass


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  20. Hookeye

    Hookeye Active Member

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    My buddy built a 24" hvy bbl rig for yotes.
    Took it on some winter walks.

    He hunts with a 16" now.