barrel length- chamber or no chamber?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by PocketsRN, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
    Ok, everything I've come across thus far says the chamber is included in the barrel length. I have an old winchester '97 that a previous owner cut down. Took it to the local auction yesterday, and they refused to sell it, said it was too short. Their gun "expert" says chamber doesnt count. Said he had a HLS officer look at it and say he wouldnt pass it. Can somebody clear this up for me, or where I can find it in the legal literature? Thanks.
     
  2. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    When the ATF measures a barrel they do it with the action closed. They drop a rod the minimum length down the barrel. If it fits entirely in the barrel without sticking out you are good. If it sticks out...you got problems.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    this ^^^^^^

    the person you were dealing with not measuring from the bolt face is an idiot. dont do business with idiots.
     
  4. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    Could not have said it better myself.
     
  5. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
    Their gun guy's a freakin idiot. I'd love to get a hard copy of the literature, though, and shove it in his face.
     
  6. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    I try not to do business with stupid people. If he is an expert it must be in Airsoft or Paintball. Maybe he is a Call of Duty expert?

    Go somewhere else.
     
  7. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
    Lol, maybe. Or some dumbass from a pawn shop
     
  8. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,508
    792
    113
    You wanted chapter and verse? You should have asked- here ya go-
    http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

    In addition, the test is made with the action cocked so that the firing pin does not protrude from the bolt face. The dowel will be close to bore diameter so it does not measure across the bore, but straight up and down.

    The one exception to this method is for a revolver. There a flat surface is placed across the forcing cone, and measurement made from muzzle to the end of the forcing cone.

    PS- you met a dolt!
     
  9. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
  10. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

    4,015
    0
    0
    That is a very easy solution to that measurement problem. I wonder how the ATF managed to think that up without help?

    I was not aware there was even a minimum length for a revolver barrel. Or do you mean just to find out how long it is?
     
  11. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    There are rifles with a revolving cylinder. Rossi makes one in 45 colt/410 shotgun.
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,508
    792
    113
    There is no minimum length for a revolver barrel. That is simply how they are measured.

    Revolving rifles, tho.......
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  13. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
    Lol, The guy's actually from another auction house. Wasn't too far off
     
  14. spottedpony

    spottedpony New Member

    66
    0
    0
    Not that it makes a difference in measuring legal length of a barrel, but one error i did see in the atf document is it references the powder in both shotgun and rifle cartridges as an explosive. Correctly its a propellant.
     
  15. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

    8,409
    4
    0
    Try to view this from the bright side, OP.

    Now you know what an ***hole looks like...;)
     
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,508
    792
    113
    pony- while it does act as a propellant, the maker classes it as an explosive- the first ingredient in many smokeless powders is nitroglycerine.

    Here is the Material Safety data Sheet for Bullseye powder. Please note the use of term explosive. Yes, I know, in the open, it burns. So does C-4.

    http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/msds/Bullseye.pdf
     
  17. spottedpony

    spottedpony New Member

    66
    0
    0
    gas/diesel/gassious fuels are explode when contained also, but are regulated as flammable. Fertilizer is highly explosive but carries no such label.
    As i recall there is no "propellant" classification, as compared to the explosive label.
     
  18. RJMercer

    RJMercer New Member

    519
    0
    0
    The "expert" on site operated under the safe side assumption that he didn't want his name anywhere near an above the table transfer of anything that had been sawed off-regardless of how much or by who.
    Pay no mind what the book or the law says or what is honest and right. It is what the agent thinks that has his boot on your neck during the raid that matters. At that moment if his opinion is that the measurement should begin 2 feet from the end of the chamber, that is all that matters in your world as you look down at teeth on the floor that used to be a comfortable part of your mouth.
     
  19. PocketsRN

    PocketsRN New Member

    74
    0
    0
    Finally had a little chat with the guy, and his former federal agent buddy, too. First he tried to tell me that measurement only applies to trenchguns. Then he told me he did measure it that way too (why, I wonder, since it only applies to trenchguns?...), and flat out denied having told me you don't measure the chamber. He could never give me a straight answer in the context of the nfa. The gun was too short because he, the other guy, and the dealer said so. I told him I understood the whole safe side assumption thing, and the dealer not wanting the risk, but when I asked him to tell me how that gun qualified as illegal within the context of the nfa, he denied ever telling me it was illegal. And the whole time, all his buddy could say was "I was a federal agent, I did this for 32 years. I was a federal agent, I did this for 32 years."
     
  20. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    I had a state job for a decade and saw some people keep their jobs when any sane manager would have fired and probably beaten them more senseless. That was at a state agency; you are talking FEDERAL agency idiocy here, a whole nother class of idiocy. That guy may have spent his whole tenure stapling papers he couldn't read.