Barnes bullets

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by BADLANDER1, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. BADLANDER1

    BADLANDER1 New Member

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    First off I have been loading a long time but this is a first for me, I was given a box of Barnes 110 gr ttsx bullets to try in my 270, my question is about barnes bullets, so hopefully some of you out there will be able to help me out. I started out with H-4350 and IMR 4350 at the lower end with both powders and worked up 1 and 1/2 grains with both. Everything else was per the barnes book. Results were poor at best. Well I then went and tried seating my bullets alittle farther out, same results.
    Being somewhat hardheaded I went out and bought a box of 130 tsx's thinking maybe it was just the bullets and my gun. Used the same powders and right off the book again, same results. E-mailed Barnes and asked them about this and they said to go with seating my bullets .050 off my lands and fine tune from there. Well that did not get me anywhere so kept digging on the internet for more info.
    I read one article that one person seated his all the way to the ogive and seen another that said he goes .080 or more, they both stated that these bullets need a good jump to perform well. How far should a guy go and is there any safety issues on how deep a person goes? Thanks
     
  2. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    It all depends.

    There are guys who run their bullet touching the lands. That is fine but you have to load for that and you have to be percise in powder measurment and everything else.

    I start at .040" off the lands and go from there.

    I think you should back up a little.

    Find the best load with say .050" off the lands. Then once you get the best group with that set up take that load and load 5 each at .040", .060", .030", .070". Then take that most accurate groups and break it down further. Till you get the best group you can.
     

  3. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    Some people swear by Barnes bullets,but I have never had them shoot worth a damn in any gun that I have tried them in.
    Tight groups with Barnes seems to be around 1 1/2 inches at 100yrds,when I can shoot Sierra,Berger,and Nosler bullets of the same weights sub-moa out of the same gun.
     
  4. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    I went through about 20 .284" 120 grain TTSX's before I finally had to concede that 1.5"- 2" groups were the best I was going to get. At the price, I am not really ready to sling a bunch more down range at paper with .5 grain powder changes and .010" OAL length changes.

    Sometimes it is what it is I guess.
     
  5. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I have used Barnes XFB, now the TSX Flat base for a few years in my 7mm Rem Mag. and 5.56x45.
    140 and 160gr shoot real well. I can tell you that although you maybe shooting 1.5" at 100 yards with them, they take longer to stabilize in flight.
    Shooting from a bench is not what they are designed for. I now load them in .308 and 8x57.
    I always stick w/ flat base as no matter what brand of bullets I've tried, they always shoot better in certain weights. The 180gr 8mm and 150gr .308 Barnes are the exception. You really need to stretch your distance out further. They also like to be loaded at the higher end of the data.
    Did you ask Barnes to send you load data? I have data direct from Barnes on every caliber I load for.

    Note the COAL:

    Bullet Weight: 180 gr Bullet Style: TSX BT
    COAL: 2.980" Case: R-P

    8x57mm Mauser Case Trim Length: 2.230"
    Primer: Fed GM210M Barrel Length: 24"
    Twist Rate: 1:9.5"

    S.D. 0.246 B.C. 0.381
     
  6. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Hey JC, I have some 140gr flat base I bought when they changed the name from XFB to TSX. I bought them from Barnes. They still have them listed in the close out section of their store. $19.00
    Barnes Bullets - Closeout Items
    I use them in 7mm Rem Mag and can give you the load data. I load them to exact OAL Barnes lists.
     
  7. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I am calling pure BS on that statement. bullets are stabilized as soon as the leave the barrel.
     
  8. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I'll rephrase for you. Your group will not open up as one would except. If your bullet is not spinning perfectly on its' axis out of the bore, it can take time to "settle down".
    I'll use a top as an example, remember when you were a kid and spun a top? Sometimes it wobbled slightly and then would straiten out, well it is the same principal. The Barnes bullet is longer than a standard cup and core lead bullet of the same weight. It takes longer to stablize. This phenominon is common w/ 7.62x54r military bullets also. 2" group w/ Hungarian silver tip out of a PSL at 100 yards, 2.5" at 300, 3.5" at 400. You would expect the group tp open up to 4" at 200, but it does not. Why? MKVII Brit .303 has the same issues.
    This is a statement from one of my books.
    The Mk. 7 round is anecdotally reputed by Commonwealth nations target shooters to be a more accurate round at ranges over 300 yds. than inside those distances because of the effects of drag and the spin of the bullet needing time to better stabilize the tail-heavy bullet's flight trajectory as precession and yaw minimize.
     
  9. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Thanks, I'll give them a look. Appreciate the heads up.
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Waiting on this call! Bet I'll wait a while. The All knowing being is God. He lives in a better place then you or I do. Tango, stop F*cking w/ sh!t you really don't know about. We have always had common ground, But there is a line. Have you ever used Barnes Bullets?
     
  11. stick_man

    stick_man New Member

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    Badlander, the Barnes bullets can be pretty finicky when it comes to accuracy loads. Most of them don't like twist rates slower than 1:10 and you need to start out with a VERY clean barrel. They like to be pushed hard.

    I was told by Barnes that they have very few bullets that will stabilize with a slower than 1:10. I was hoping to use the Varmint Grenades in my .223 but the 1:12 twist is said to not stabilize them. :mad: My '06 has a 1:10 twist and it loves the 165 and 168 gr TSX better than the older coated XLCs (which also shot very well).

    If your rifle has a twist rate slower than 1:10, you may be out of luck for using the TSX or TTSX. That could be the problem you are facing.

    Best of luck. I have found they are great bullets and perform as flawlessly as anything out there. Others have had very poor results with them.
     
  12. BADLANDER1

    BADLANDER1 New Member

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    Stick Man-I am shooting a older Rem 700 270, 1:10 twist. Shot a box of 110 ttsx's and some from a box of 130 tsx's using 3 different powders/different seating depths with what I would say is very poor result at best. Well after many frustrating days at the range I can say I done with these bullets for this gun. I know they shoot good for those that get there loads figurerd out.

    Thanks guys for all the input, learn lots by asking-GOOD SITE!











    IIsk
     
  13. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Now I understand why he asked what rifles I had when I talked w/ them.
    Because I shoot a BLR in .308 they recommended the 150gr instead of the 165 variety. Even though it is a 1:9.5, it is a shorter barrel. My CZ527 is 1:9, so the 53gr FB was the ticket before the newer heavier tsx 62gr BT came out.
     
  14. RaySendero

    RaySendero Member

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    Here's what I've read and seen - The Barnes bullets can be a different animal to shoot and reload.

    1) Some rifles shot them OK but many rifles didn't shoot accurately with the all copper X bullet, introduced in 1989, due to the variartion in the bore/bullet diameter tolerences. Usually this was a bore toward the minimum diameter tolerence or a bullet toward the high end or both. Barnes solution in 2003 was to add 3 rings to the bullet so as to let the copper have some "flow" area along the side of the bullet - This change was called the triple shock X.

    2) Barnes first marketed the all copper X bullet as to go down in bullet weight and drive them faster. Now, they have got away from this recommending heavier bullet recently, I think just to sell more bullets. I also think that the first description to lower bullet weight and drive them faster is more the best way to stabilize them.

    3) Another thing I've read was where some reloaders got "out-of-the-box" and really increased the distance from the lands much more than one would normally try (i.e. 0.070"). AND guess what, they say this really worked in some rifles to improve accuracy.


    Summary - If your not getting the accuracy results your wanting - Try experimenting with either a ligher bullet at a higher velocity and/or backing way off the lands. Hope this helps.
     
  15. BADLANDER1

    BADLANDER1 New Member

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    I just bought another rifle (Kimber 8400, 270 cal.) and since I still have a few of the 130 tsx's left so after deer season I am going to try some more loads with them in this rifle. We'll see where that goes with some new ideas.