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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i wasn't sure where this thread belongs, if i'm in the wrong spot, feel free to move it

so yesterday, i went down to the gun store, just to look around...


and i spotted what i thought was a good deal on a used springfield xd-9. it felt good in my hand, and i wanted another pistol, i enjoy my 45 alot.

just like last time, my paperwork is delayed. i don't understand why. i am squeaky clean. no police record, no dui's, no mental problems, no associations with "unsavory" groups or individuals. i usually get jobs that other guys in my local can't get because i have no problems getting security clearances.

is there a way to find out why this happens, and if it is correctable? it's not like i NEED to have it right away, but having to wait for it takes alot of the fun out of the purchase. i would like to hear your thoughts, i know you guys have alot of experience, and maybe i can learn something.
 

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I hold an FL CWP. Whenever I purchased a gun on a Saturday, the response from the state was always delayed.

I suspect Saturdays are busy everywhere.
 

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Background checks seem to just be random in terms of how long it takes. I picked up that little Savage 17HMR rifle at Walmart yesterday afternoon (Saturday) and the check took, literally, less than a minute to come back. I've stood around for 2 hours at one of my LGS's on a Wednesday waiting for one to come back. Watched a fella buying a gun at my local Walmart one evening at around 6:00PM, he ended up having to come back the next day. No rhyme or reason.
 

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Adding the SSN often clears up delays from what i have seen. I used to get delays because of a felon out there with same name. Adding the SSN cleared it up.
Nowadays...
Fortunately, here in AZ, they dont have to run the check if you to have a CCW permit.
I walk in, complete the 4473, walk out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Adding the SSN often clears up delays from what i have seen. I used to get delays because of a felon out there with same name. Adding the SSN cleared it up.
i thought the same, so i did put mine on the form. i have a cousin who has the same name as me (he's a lawyer with a clean record) and his father has the same name, but he's halfway through his 80's, and clean record.
 

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nada,

Today we must understand that in the last year or so there have been over a million new first time gun owners. So, over a million checks had to be done for every new gun they bought. And as the Old Gnome stated, a lot of people who are responsible enough to work like you do a lot of their purchases on the weekend being Friday but mostly on Saturday. So the demand for checks is high at those times. And then beside normal gun stores there are usually several gun shows going on in an area on Friday, Saturday and some on Sundays.
And as one person stated, if you have a common name there are those out there that are less reputable than us! So sometimes it takes time to sort out the difference. So the delay results!

03
 

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My last 2 purchases were delayed. The Ffl told me it goes through the state first . That is Pennsylvania. I never researched his reply.
 

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Since 2012 first in Virginia and now in Kentucky, every time I purchase a new firearm it's delayed. Now I just figure it's a given. I leave and tell the store to call me. I wait and return after three days and pick it up. If you're not flagged they have to give it to you after three business days.
The ATF don't care about you or me. They should be a convenience store instead of a government agency.
 

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My last 2 purchases were delayed. The Ffl told me it goes through the state first . That is Pennsylvania. I never researched his reply.
That was correct. In PA your check goes through your State Police. If they are real busy, then you do get a delay some times. Some other States have similar to you.
 

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Adding the SSN often clears up delays from what i have seen. I used to get delays because of a felon out there with same name. Adding the SSN cleared it up.
Nowadays...
Fortunately, here in AZ, they dont have to run the check if you to have a CCW permit.
I walk in, complete the 4473, walk out.
Same in Iowa. You have CC Permit, just fill out the 4473 and take your gun home.
 

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I've never delved deeply into the NICS system and exactly how it works, but my understanding is there are 2 basic means an FFL can process the check. Over the phone and electronically. Over the phone I believe means they have to reach a human on the other end who then performs the search through the 3 main databases and then provides the response, either "proceed", delayed" or "denied."

The electronic system is automated. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but with modern computers, I can't understand how an automated search through 3 databases can take hours. In fact,m I find it tough to swallow that any electronic system takes hours for database seaches. Databases are fairly mature technology and at the heart of so many things. These days, it doesn't really take monsterously powerful computers to perform lightning fast database operations, even at a national scale.

As an aside, I'm starting to get pretty miffed with the ATF over my form 4 stamp approval for a suppressor. It's now been almost 11 months since my forms hit the ATF's office and still no approval. I'm beginning to think the introduction of the electronic form 4 system at the end of last December has pulled employees away from the paper form side of things and further delayed the process. The ATF is required to publish wait times every 90 days and for the last 6 months paper form 4s have had a status of 8 months.

I know people who purchased suppressors in January on the new electronic system that have already gotten their approvals back. Grrrrrr.....
 

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Two things, perhaps, perhaps not. One - FFL making the request didn't get everything perfect. Two-BATF has multiple "similar" entries that may trigger a human having to actually perform a task. May not be a criminal history thing at all, may just be multiple queries within a pre-determined length of time, etc. Call 'em, get a live person & ask...

If folks think "universal background checks" will be faster, I think not. Stand by for a ram.
 

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Same in Iowa. You have CC Permit, just fill out the 4473 and take your gun home.
Yep same here in Texas, if you got a license to carry, the whole process from background check to the 4473 is like less then 10 min.

That’s how it was back in January when I went to go pick up my M&P straight after work. You hand them your carry license, they run the background check (they still run the check even if you have a LTC but it only takes them a few min because the LTC speeds up the process) Then you just fill out the 4473, pay the transfer fee and done. And you walk out with your firearm.
 

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I like the idea of carry permit owners not even having to do a 4473 at all, but then the question arises, how do you determine that the carry permit is still valid? What if a permit holder gets convicted of a crime that invalidates the permit and prevents that person from owning or purchasing a firearm? A check has to be conducted somewhere, somehow by the FFL.

A possible solution is a separate database of permit holders that runs on a fully automated system. Much like checking a driver's license number or your social, have a system where the FFL just punches in the state, name and permit number and instantly find out if it is still valid or not. It would be quicker and require a lot less in terms of computers and human interaction. Also, a single point where if a permit holder is convicted of a crime, it could quickly and easily be rendered invalid. Non-permit holders would have to go through the standard 4473 and NICS process for firearms purchases.

However, once everyone learns about such a system, then more people would get permits just to make purchasing quicker and easier and that could potentially clog up the system, but a single-point type of system would still be quicker and easier to maintain and use.

When I was in the military, intelligence, I had a top secret SCI clearance. The highest you can get. I underwent a year long FBI investigation and these guys left no stone unturned. But, once I got it, I didn't have to go through one each and every time I was read on to a new project or anything involving a different area of classification. I simply had to read and sign NDA's and agreements. Had I done anything to get in trouble, my whole clearance would be revoked until such time I was cleared or convicted of something (at which time I would have lost my clearance completely). Our current firearms purchasing system basically requires the equivalent of that complete background check every time you purchase a firearm. It's onerous and time and resource consuming. I think we need a system whereby for your first purchase or when acquiring a carry permit, you have to undergo that full check. Once done, we need a way to verify that and not have to go through it each and every time. Such a system would be easy to implement and isn't rocket science.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The electronic system is automated. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but with modern computers, I can't understand how an automated search through 3 databases can take hours. In fact,m I find it tough to swallow that any electronic system takes hours for database seaches. Databases are fairly mature technology and at the heart of so many things. These days, it doesn't really take monsterously powerful computers to perform lightning fast database operations, even at a national scale.

..
this is what i think too, and it causes me to think the delay is for some reason, deliberate
 

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this is what i think too, and it causes me to think the delay is for some reason, deliberate
My understanding is that a "delayed" response means the purchaser has a very common name and the database search takes longer, or the purchaser's name is similar to someone who is prohibited and again, takes longer to drill down to ensure the purchaser is not the prohibited person.

This raises a few questions for me. Are there really so many background check requests simultaneously that it truly is bogging the system down? Again, having been an IT professional for over 20 years, I find it hard to believe there are enough searches going on all at once to bog down the system, unless it is being run on some very antiquated and/or low end hardware/software.

Also, what is meant by having to drill down deeper to differentiate two people? That indicates to me that a normal search only looks a certain "depth" into your background and only if your name is similar to someone prohibited does it look at all the info. I would think the check would be thorough each time, regardless.

I dunno, guess I'm going to have to do some research and get a better handle on how it all works.
 

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I have two customers who always get 'delayed'. I have suggest that they get the 'pin' but they do not want to go to that trouble. It appears that there is 'bad guy' with the same name and similar other 'identifiers' from Bama. Does Delaware use the state or the NICS for their background checks?
 
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