Back to Bore Cleaning

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Silvertip 44, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. Silvertip 44

    Silvertip 44 New Member

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    It appears that this Remington BDL .30-06 is just one of those rifles that is going to collect a bunch of copper in the bore every time I shoot and there is no way getting around it.
    I fired about 30 rounds at the range yesterday and then started cleaning it when i returned home. I started by running two wet patches with Hoppes 9 and let it sit for a while. Patch came out deep blue. i then used the homemade concoction of 2 parts 10% Janitorial ammonia and 1 part liquid dishwashing detergent. I used Dawn rather than the Ivory liquid. Let the rifle sit for about an hour ran a patch through and it was royal blue. I ran several patches and they started coming out white. Put some more Hoppes through and it came out clean so the ammonia really gets the copper out.
    It appears this will become standard procedure after every shoot with the '06.

    I guess that next I will mix up a container of Ed's Red.

    There was a little copper in the .300 WM bore, but the ammonia took care of it too. I can let the .300 rest for a month or so since I finally settled on a very accurate load for elk hunting.
     
  2. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I thought I read somewhere about some kind of ""bore lapping" material. Supposedly, you dip bullet tips in it, and clean the bore as if you are breaking it in.
     

  3. Silvertip 44

    Silvertip 44 New Member

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    I've read about that as well and also the fire lapping bullets, but I am a little concerned about using such in my rifles. It may work fine, but then I don't want to ruin a barrel either.
    This ammonia/soap method gets it out but it is somewhat breath taking and needs elbow grease.
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    I just finished getting all the supplies for the electric bore cleaner a guy told me about.I'll get it all together and try it out on my 25/06 in a couple days.

    I sure hope it works like I was told,and if it does,then I'm going to try the Final Finish bullets out and hopefully I can get the bore straightened out on the 25/06.

    I'll keep you informed on it Silvertip. THB
     
  5. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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  6. Silvertip 44

    Silvertip 44 New Member

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    Thanks, Tx. Be sure to post some pics of the cleaner when you get it all together. Is what you are talking about the one that uses the flashlight and batteries?
     
  7. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's what I'm going to use after I get all the copper out of the bore,but I'm using the bullets that they sell that I load myself. You get 5 sets of 10 bullets,5 different grits from coarse to polish.
    I probably won't use the first two grits,I don't want to erode the throat in the barrel and have been told to skip the first two grits.

    Cabela's -- Tubb Final Finish Bore Polishing System
     
  8. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Yes,That's the one I'm going to try out.
     
  9. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    I have a cousin that has used it and said it did make "somewhat" of an improvement. Personally I don't think it is anywhere near as effective as a good hand lapping with a poured lead lap though. There is no feel to what/where you are lapping running those pills down the bore.
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Be careful with the Tubbs system it is like shooting sandpaper down your barrel and the only thing it will really do is wear it out even faster.

    As for the OP get the outters foul out system and clean the bore then just go from there. Every time you shoot the thing you are firelapping the barrel.
     
  11. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    At this point,I'm not worried about wearing the barrel out.I'm just tired of it being a Copper Mine,and about the most it will do is erode the throat,and that's only if you use the first 2 coarse grit sets of bullets.

    Tango,You can make one of these for around $20.
    I tried mine out after I got off work.This thing actually works,but I need to get some industrial strength ammonia.The stuff I bought at the store just isn't strong enough to cut the copper,but man,did it really clean out the bore.
    I took some pics of the process.I'll post them later.

    Right now I'm soaking the barrel with the foam cleaner,trying to get more copper out.
     
  12. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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  13. Silvertip 44

    Silvertip 44 New Member

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    Tx, I got my ammonia at Ace Hardware. It is 10% janitorial strength. There is more concentrated avaliable, but I don't know where to get it. Be careful with that stuff cause it will get you to wheezing in short order.
     
  14. Silvertip 44

    Silvertip 44 New Member

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    Since we got on this big bore cleaning kick, I have been going back through my two gun safes and pulling out all my rifles--Garands, 03s, M1As, Rem 742 ect and have gone to work on them. It is supprising what I am getting out of bores that previously I thought were clean enough.
    Working with the .300 WM and my sons .30-06 was the catalyst that really got me started when I discovered just how much copper fouling could effect accuracy.
    I really appreciate all the input this thread has received because I have really learned a bunch of good stuff in short order.
     
  15. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anything can be as bad as the Montana Extreme bore cleaner I have.That stuff will wake up the dead!
     
  16. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Well,I finally got all the copper out of the 25/06.It only took 3 1/2 days of cleaning with the Electric setup,some hard scrubbing,and alot of soaking the barrel overnite with bore cleaning foam.No more BLUE patches-Yippee!

    Now if it will ever cool off around here,I'm getting tired of the 100+* days.
    The heat is bad enough,I have to wear a fire suit while I'm working on the Gas wells at work so it might as well be 150* outside.
    I still need to load the Final Finish bullets and see if I can get the bore smoothed out in this barrel.
     
  17. DarkFreedom

    DarkFreedom New Member

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    wouldn't ammonia etch the metal in the bore after a while?
     
  18. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=19&ved=0CDEQFjAIOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tet-terra.com%2Fdownloads%2Fammonia_tech_manual_2008.pdf&rct=j&q=ammonia%20attacking%20steel%3F&ei=ZexvTPS9JI_2swOqjL3BCw&usg=AFQjCNFCnyCyUemYD-BNqaUi6UdqRkmuDQ&cad=rja

    The RUST that develops from leaving it in the bore too long comes from the water that the ammonia is put into solution with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  19. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I use Sweets 7.62 brand ammonia based cleaner from time to time and as I recall the directions on the bottle says not to leave the solution in the barrel for more than 15 minuets as it may etch the finish on the barrel. Now this stuff works real good but I use it very seldom and leave it in for only a few minuets at a time before getting it all out. I've used Sweets primairly on my M1A when it used to get near 1000 rounds or so pumped down the pipe in a single session of shooting. (Me and a few other fellows having too much fun sharing it between ourselves in one day)

    That being said, I'd like to add that I subscribe to the theory (if it is a theory) that most all the copper that gets in the barrel is coming from the throat of the barrel. You see, by the nature of the process of making and finishing a barrel there are "tooling" marks left in the throat of the barrel. They look like super fine file marks of the surface of the throat of the barrel.

    That nano-second or so when the bullet takes up the clearance in the throat before it hits the lands of the barrel, the heat is so intense that some of the copper off the bullet actually turns to a plasma with all the other expanding gasses following the actual bullet as it travels down the barrel. The copper then is falling out of suspension with the other gasses following the bullet down the barrel and sticking to the barrel.

    Copper sticks to itself better that it sticks to the barrel and "breaking-in" a barrel with the one shot and clean for several cycles then 3 shots and clean, and so on is really letting the bullets "polish out" the throat and keeping the build up of coppepr in the barrel to a minimum during this process. It's much easier to clean a little copper out at a time than to let it build up and then clean it out. The copper build up never actually goes away, but in time will reduce in amount of indications of it being in the barrel when cleaning.

    A hand lapped barrel will usually show reduction of copper build up fairly quick when compaired to a factory barrel which is usually not hand lapped.

    Well theres my 2 cents worth and it is my story and I'm sticking to it.:D

    Also, if you measure your COAL of your rifle you will usually find quite a bit of clearance between the throad of the barrel in relation to the bullet. SAMMI specs and all. In my Remmy 700 I had about .013" clearance in this area. I reload for accuracy, so I seat my bullets for this Remmy 700 rifle of mine to about .004" clearance to the throat. Along with improving accuracy (reduced bullet jump), I notice less a problem of natural copper build up in the barrel.

    WARNING
    Reloading like this makes the ammuition specific to just that rifle and may be dangerous in another rifle even if of same brand and caliber.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010