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I have a client that has an extensive collection of firearms that date back to the 1930's to 1940's. Some of these are fully automatic and all of them were acquired from his grandfather who immigrated from Ireland. He has asked to broker the selling of this collection. Do I have to be a class 3 dealer to sell these? If not, are there any special forms that needs to be completed?
 

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You may want to run this through the BATFE Firearms Tech Branch over in Martinsburg WV, but I THINK that you may be able to sell them, but ONLY to a dealer that has the SOT to sell machine guns. You cannot have possession of them unless you have an FFL AND have a Class 3 SOT endorsement.

Phone number for the NFA branch is 304-616-4500.

Edit- Think you are near Austin. If so, a Class III dealer there you can check with-

SKOTZ ORDNANCE SERVICES
11303 RR 2222
AUSTIN, TX 78730
Phone: (512) 250-5050

Austin Gun Spot
12714 Parkland Dr
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: (512) 219-9522

Spreadfire
9410 C Anderson Mill Rd
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: (512) 547-5150

PS- I DO hope that all of the full autos have already been registered with the BATFE. If they have not, I have VERY sad news- they CANNOT be registered, are contraband, and must be surrendered to the BATFE for destruction.
 

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c3shooter said:
I THINK that you may be able to sell them, but ONLY to a dealer that has the SOT to sell machine guns. You cannot have possession of them unless you have an FFL AND have a Class 3 SOT endorsement.
Not true, as long as they were registered before the hughs amendment, they are completely transferable to other civilians, however I don't know about the licenses needed to sell them.
 

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Not true, as long as they were registered before the hughs amendment, they are completely transferable to other civilians, however I don't know about the licenses needed to sell them.
wrong. C3 is correct. remember the NFA of 1934? C3 is refering to firearms that may have been war trophys or moved into this country when the gun laws were not nearly as restrictive as regards to importation. the Hughes Amendment only regards those manufactured before 1986. F/A firearms have always been registered since 1934. if they are not registered then they are not legal. they have to be surrendered to the ATF. no exceptions, reasons or buts!
 

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axxe55 said:
wrong. C3 is correct. remember the NFA of 1934? C3 is refering to firearms that may have been war trophys or moved into this country when the gun laws were not nearly as restrictive as regards to importation. the Hughes Amendment only regards those manufactured before 1986. F/A firearms have always been registered since 1934. if they are not registered then they are not legal. they have to be surrendered to the ATF. no exceptions, reasons or buts!
That's what I'm saying, you don't need to have an ffl to own a full auto, they just have to have been registered prior to 86 for it to be transferable to civilians
 

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That's what I'm saying, you don't need to have an ffl to own a full auto, they just have to have been registered prior to 86 for it to be transferable to civilians
there was nothing mentioned about a person having to have an FFL to own a REGISTERED NFA firearm. if the firearms had not been registered sometime in the past, then they cannot be transfered and have to be surrendered to the ATF for disposal, because they are illegal. the OP stated this collecton is from Ireland and many of the firearms are from the 1930's and 1940's. which means they may be UNREGISTERED war trophys and if so they are illegal to own and transfer.

and BTW, i seriously doubt you know more about firearms regulations than C3. he is pretty much the resident expert in firearms legalities here on the forum.
 

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axxe55 said:
there was nothing mentioned about a person having to have an FFL to own a REGISTERED NFA firearm. if the firearms had not been registered sometime in the past, then they cannot be transfered and have to be surrendered to the ATF for disposal, because they are illegal. the OP stated this collecton is from Ireland and many of the firearms are from the 1930's and 1940's. which means they may be UNREGISTERED war trophys and if so they are illegal to own and transfer.
It sounded like they had been registered here and if so they are transferable but if they were not they can only be sold to other ffl's as dealer samples
 

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It sounded like they had been registered here and if so they are transferable but if they were not they can only be sold to other ffl's as dealer samples
the OP never said one word about them being registered. he very plainly stated, his client had an extensive collection with some fully auto firearms.

now where in that sentence does it say anything about anything being "registered"?
 

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axxe55 said:
the OP never said one word about them being registered. he very plainly stated, his client had an extensive collection with some fully auto firearms.

now where in that sentence does it say anything about anything being "registered"?
I was assuming his grandfather had immigrated here a while ago and out of common sense would have checked the laws and seen that he needed to register them and would have done so
 

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I was assuming his grandfather had immigrated here a while ago and out of common sense would have checked the laws and seen that he needed to register them and would have done so
lets put this in simple terms. do you know when this person immigrated here? do you know what firearms were in the collection? if he immigrated he might not have been aware of our firearm laws.

you have no idea as to what the details are and are making assumptions.:rolleyes:
 

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axxe55 said:
lets put this in simple terms. do you know when this person immigrated here? do you know what firearms were in the collection? if he immigrated he might not have been aware of our firearm laws.

you have no idea as to what the details are and are making assumptions.:rolleyes:
I would assume that he registered them just like I assume most people with nfa guns register them
 

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Gentlemen- the question was whether the Original Poster, a firearms dealer, could SELL them for the customer.

As I stated, there is separate paperwork to BE a machine gun dealer. If the OP is not a machine gun dealer, he may not hold those for sale. And as I said- ATF NFA Firearms Branch will have the definitive answer.

To the OP- I DO hope he has the right ATF paperwork. In recent years, as older folks passed away, we have had a lot of stuff showing up with DEWATS paperwork- which is no longer valid.

To FullAuto- no, you do not need a FFL to possess a registered full auto that you own. But you DO in order to sell them for others. Which was what was covered in the first post.
 

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I understand why the law is the way it is, and that they will not allow "retroactive registration" because who's to say for sure if something is an old antique collectible out of grandpa's collection, or brand new made last week.

but it really is a shame to think of those older and antique and family heirlooms that have to be destroyed because someone didn't take the time to get them registered back in the 30s.



Makes you wonder what would happen with today's weapons...If they force a national registration of ALL firearms or "assault weapons" ...most of us probably wouldn't comply because it's the first step to having them taken away.

but what would happen down the line when we die off, and our firearms collections are handed down?

Lets hope we never get to that point with ALL weapons!:eek:
 

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If they are registered, they are worth a fortune. If not,each is worth 10 years in a Federal penitentiary. Lawyer up. This is nothing to fool around with.

Legal registered full-autos should have been transferred to the heir on Form 5.
 

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Not unless you rgrandfather registered them during the 1968 Gun Cintrol Act which was essentially anmnesty for ownners of auto firearms
Most were War bring backs at that ime.If you did not register your auto weapon then abnd kept the gun, it is illegal to ownn or transfer
There is no way to get around this 1968 GCA( Full autos were first made illegal to own unless properly registered with the proper licensing bodies under the 1934 GCA, percursor to the 1968 GCA).No way to make a bring back full auto legal now, I fyou 'missed' registration under the amnesty of the 1968 GCA. Period.

No to be confused with today's process of legal registration and transfer by the NFA re Class 3 weapons.
 
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