ATF visit and follow up

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by mscomc, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. mscomc

    mscomc New Member

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    Hey Friends:

    I was hoping to get some thoughts/comments/concerns on a situation I am facing. I'll admit, I am a relative newbie to this world so some criticism is welcome as well.

    So to start off, I am actually a Canadian who is currently living here in the USA for at least the next three years on a work visa. Target shooting was always a hobby of mine back home, so I looked to continue that hobby here in the U.S. Now in my case, since I am legally admitted here on a non-immigrant visa, the only extra step I need to do when buying from an FFL is show proof that I am here legally (ie: my passport) and that I have an exemption document (there are a few kind), the easiest being a valid hunting license issued by a state government. So that whats that I have and do, and I have successfully gone through the NICS twice and own two handguns here in the USA. So that's my little biography.

    Back in the summer, two ATF agents came to my home asking if they could talk to me about one of the handguns I had bought. I invited them in...I know some say I should not have, but I feel that since I am a basically a guest in this country, I should be more 'respectful' to law enforcement. They said that one of the handguns I had bought was part of investigation of theirs and it was part of an investigation long before I ever came into possession of it, but after talking to the FFL that I bought it from, it led them to me. They asked if they could see it and I said yes. After looking at it and writing down the serial # they also asked if they could just see the other gun I had, and I said yes and they wrote the serial # again. After that was all done, one of the agents mentioned that upon looking up my hunting licence, the one that I was using to buy the firearms, it seemed as though I had the wrong kind of hunting license. He said it wasn't that big of a deal, and suggested I just go online to my states wildlife and fisheries website and buy the correct one, so I did right on the spot. After that was all done, we shook hands and they left. No confiscation of anything and the whole encounter took 20-30 min maybe.


    About 4-5 months go by, and we are now in the present day. The same agent called me and asked if he could set up a time to come and take some photos of the same firearm that was under investigation before for verification purposes. After confirming with me that I still have it, I asked "how urgent is this?", he said "well I probably can't do it this week as I have more urgent things to work on, but next week, the week after that or anytime after next week is OK really...." He said it would take no more than 5 minutes and the time was completely up to me. He also assured me that the purpose of this visit was NOT to recover the firearm. So I have made an appointment for next week to settle this. I told him if I have to cancel I will just call him and he said OK.


    My question is this....do any of you think this is something to worry about? The fact that nothing happened to me at our first encounter where I believe if I was really in trouble they would have seized the weapons then and there or arrested me.....and the fact that there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency of when we meet up now would suggest that there isn't anything to worry about.......but an appointment to take pictures? sounds kind of odd. I mean we all carry smart phones now, why didn't he just do it then? And wait this long?

    Anyway, sorry for the LONG story. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated!

    Best Regards, :)
     
  2. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

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    Did you purchase both guns from same FFL?

    I would call up a Lawyer and next time you meet up with ATF--AT LAWYER's OFFICE. No ifs, ands, buts.

    Tell them to have warrant in hand when meeting, for what purpose and reason for investigating. NO, hiding secrets about what encounter about guns are about. Have lawyer help you for this. Lawyer may set up meeting with you and ATF. Don't do by yourself. Jail time could be involved with these A$$HOLES.

    Your freedom depends on having someone by your side, as something doesn't smell right.

    Can't say it enough. GET A LAWYER---------NOW, NOW, NOW!!!
     

  3. CardiacColt68

    CardiacColt68 New Member

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    Since the ATF agents involved have behaved honestly and fairly so far I would suggest NOT referring to them as *ssholes. Let's save that for those that earn it. But I would also suggest contacting an attorney and protecting yourself just in case. No need to play hard ball and be unreasonable, but there is sense in protecting yourself and documenting the process. Just in case.
     
  4. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc[/ame]

    Yes, ATF agents fall under the "police" category. Get an attorney!!!
     
  5. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    I can understand anyone trying to avoid "Getting an Attorney." Sure, lots of attorneys will be happy to handle the meeting - for $400.00 an hour, plus other costs. Each phone call & e-mail after the meeting will also cost big time.

    Don't bother with the B.S. about "Do you expect them to work for free?" My probate attorney charges $160.00 for each one-line e-mail as well as each one-minute phone call & even parking at the courthouse. Ridiculous!
     
  6. mscomc

    mscomc New Member

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    Thanks for the replies everyone, it is appreciated. I did buy both guns from the same FFL but the transactions were about 2 months apart. Getting an attorney does make sense I think.

    The thing is, when I am logically going around with this in my head certain questions come up.

    When we had our first encounter back in the summer, if I was really in some kind of trouble then, why wouldn't they have seized the guns that day? They left me with two handguns this whole time? When one of the agents was inspecting the firearms the first time, he even put the mags (which were loaded) back in the gun before he left. To allow these many months to go by....?
     
  7. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    Mscomc - welcome to the forum. I read your post carefully. It does not make sense.

    I could not find any mentioning of you asking the men to show their ID's. You should have had their names, and probably business cards. First thing you would do next is call the agency and verify that so-and-so were in fact their employees. And go from there.

    I am sorry - there has to be more to your story. As told, it is too weird to give you any suggestions.
     
  8. mscomc

    mscomc New Member

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    Thank you for your reply. Allow me to clarify. Both agents when they first came to my home did identify themselves by showing their badges/Id's and gave me their ATF business cards. I did call the agency to confirm as well. Is there any other information you feel is lacking that can add proper depth to my original post?

    Thank you.
     
  9. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

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    CardiacColt68, you CANNOT trust any government agency. Not right now. They're corrupt at this time. Fast & Furious/Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton/Bengozi and Email lies, New York Safe Act/Bloomberg, ATF raids and copying 4473's in many gun shops to gain the names/whereabouts of law abiding citizens who own guns. What has happened to ANY of these people when they're suppose to be upholding the Constitution? Not a blessed thing, because they're corrupt as the rest.

    These agents KNEW they needed a warrant, but yet there they are in a man's home handling HIS GUNS. Taking serial numbers and now wanting pictures, ALL in the name of an investigation.

    Federal Agents---no matter what department they're from, use the badge in their favor, and rely on the naïve nature of people to bow/cower down in their presence.

    They have the power and authority to arrest, jail and take away YOUR RIGHTS, there on the spot.

    We as gun owners can't play stupid in our rights when others' are wanting to take away those rights----even if you feel they play nice.
     
  10. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    I expect that for some reason they think you are illegally trafficking guns into Canada. They have waited to see if you have the same guns after 2 months. BATFE is working with the Canadian Authorities for some reason. :confused:
     
  11. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    Well, I'm all for standing up for our rights, but if they have that much power, wouldn't it be wiser to be nice to them? Just like regular cops, if you piss them off, they'll look for any excuse to arrest you.
     
  12. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    Fearing the police so much you are afraid of offending them is not practical. Inviting police into your home and allowing them to research your private property is surrendering your rights.
    This is the very sort of thing that our Forefathers sought to protect us against.
     
  13. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Agreed.

    Anytime the police come into your home to examine or seize your private property, there should be a warrant describing the things to be investigated or seized. That should be a completely standard part of police procedure.

    If the BATFE can't convince a judge that your firearm is a material part of an investigation, it's probably because there's no plausible relationship between the firearm and suspected illegal activities under investigation.

    Always remember that the police exist solely to gather evidence against those suspected of breaking our laws for the purpose of prosecuting and incarcerating them.

    If I were you, I'd get a lawyer involved to find out what specific case the BATFE is trying to make against you.
     
  14. Seargent_York

    Seargent_York New Member

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    I agree with the other poster who suggested that the agents are trying to make sure you are not smuggling guns across the border. makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

    a lot of the posted comments refer to your rights - the fact here is that you are NOT a U.S. Citizen and henceforth not guaranteed the same rights as a citizen, and probably open to more suspicion.

    I'm glad you can come to this country and legally purchase firearms. As an outsider, you should be prepared for a higher level of scrutiny and considering the day and age we live in - I have zero problem with that

    Enjoy your stay!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  15. JYD

    JYD New Member

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    This is how you answer cops with questions

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZI_AREyvI[/ame]
     
  16. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    Perfect example of immature passive aggressive douchebaggery & attention whoring. The guy lives to annoy people. This is also how gun rights are destroyed.
     
  17. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Douchebaggery is the perfect word for this A-hole

    He's either got something serious to hide, or he needs a psych eval for the exreme paranoia.
     
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Deleted, double post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  19. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    [/QUOTE]He also assured me that the purpose of this visit was NOT to recover the firearm.[/QUOTE]

    There is no reason to believe there is anything more to this situation than the agent stated.



    That's how douchebags get themselves on $hit lists. People who hassle the police better be squeaky clean. We had an idiot like that near here, always giving the police a hard time. Then a narcotics cop observed his sale of recreational pharmaceuticals: Got him on candid camera.
     
  20. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    Yes. It is strange that the agents went to your house without as much as a letter or a phone call. It is not clear what there was to accomplish by meeting you in person. The fact that you owned a firearm with a known serial number had already been established. The second inquiry is totally mysterious, to me anyway.

    I don't think you are telling us the whole story. Something is not right. This being the Internet, nothing else I can say.