ATF seizes toy guns

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by bkt, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Why is ATF seizing 'toy guns'?

    The lede says it all:

    Really? Define "easily." Define "minimal work." gives us some clues:

    Relative to what? Would "a quick retooling" involve completely replacing the barrel, bolt, upper and lower receivers and trigger assembly? What all needs to be swapped out to handle the immense pressure differences between something capable of firing plastic BBs and something that can fire...let's see, it's being reported as an M4 copy, so I'd assume this...

    The Seattle Times' "The Blotter" has made some assumptions:

    What, they're real guns, no "conversion necessary"...?

    We can perhaps forgive the reporter, though--he's only following the government's lead:

    Is that official ignorance—or a calculated lie?

    When this story first came to my attention, I thought it must be a satire piece from The Onion and all the news agencies had fallen for it. For now, absent further information, all we can do is speculate and ask questions.

    For instance, where does ATF get authority to seize these facsimiles? Does the FTB classify them as "firearms"?

    (3) The term “firearm” means
    (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
    (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
    (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

    If so, can we expect to see charges filed beyond shipment seizure for violations of firearms import and transfer laws?

    Can we see a list of steps, tools, materials and component parts necessary to "easily retrofit [the seized toys] into dangerous weapons" so that they won't blow up in your face the first time you try to fire one?

    What level of gunsmithing skills would be required?

    How about a public demonstration, perhaps on YouTube, to show us the "minimal work" involved?"

    How much would all this conversion cost?

    See, it's critical that we all know what they mean by "readily...converted." Because based on what they have to do to turn parts and materials into a U.S. Code-defined "firearm," many of us may unwittingly be in possession of all kinds of things that meet their criteria, and thus unknowingly in very real and serious legal jeopardy. And woe unto us if they further decide what we have innocently purchased and possessed qualifies as a "machinegun," carrying attendant National Firearms Act violation penalties. That's not something that ought to be arbitrary, or at the government's discretion to have us to find out by surprise.

    It gets better. The business owners victimized by this have been told they need to file a Freedom of Information Act request in order to see the procedures ATF used to determine these toys are readily convertible. And as noted in this YouTube video, ATF's "expert" authority on the matter initially tries to insert a magazine backwards! Seriously!

    [Click on link for access to video. -bkt]

    Of most immediate concern, should every shop selling similar Airsoft-type guns, and every owner of one, now fear a raid and confiscation?

    And of most importance, with "shall not be infringed" as their mandate, just where the hell do federal "Only Ones" armed with real machineguns get off not trusting sovereign adults—who are supposed to be their masters—with toys?

    UPDATE: "Airsoft Outlet Northwest gives the scoop on the Tacoma Seizure, an industry without a standard"


    Way to go, boys. You sure protected us all from those eeeeevil toys. Thanks a pantload.
  2. orangello

    orangello New Member

    Oh crap! I'd better go hide that Red Rider before they lock me away for good.

  3. hunter Joe

    hunter Joe New Member

    Hey Moe, Hey Larry, Hey Curly, NUK NUK NUK. Unfeak'n believable. I would think are tax dollars could be better spent instead of chasing business men with toy guns.

    Maybe next time their will go after those people who sell bubblegum cigars.
  4. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

    Just one more reason I won't be renewing my C&R....
  5. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

    This just in!!

    While Tacoma ATF Agents were conficating toy guns at the port, three suitcase nukes were transported across the Mexican border into Arizona by Islamic terrorists. (fiction)

    There was a truck load of 100 watt plasma rifles that landed in Long Beach California in a shipping container labled "Toyota accelerator Peddles". (fiction)

    Fifty M60 machine guns and 500,000 rounds of belted ammunition was traded off for two hundred cases of Johnny Walker Red at Fort Lewis, Washington. (fiction)

    A container full of toy guns was conficated at the Port of Tacoma. (true)

    If they have nothing better to do than this, what do we need the ATF for! This field office just made the entire Bureau look bad! :mad:
  6. MoHawk

    MoHawk New Member


    That I do agree with
  7. RadioActiV

    RadioActiV New Member

    Don't you just love it when gov. branches flex their abilities for pointless reasons:eek:
  8. orangello

    orangello New Member

    Strokin it isn't completely pointless.
  9. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    Bless their pointy little heads!

    And it was only 50,000 rounds of belted ammo that we threw in with the M-60s. Barrels were about gone on those, otherwise we would have demanded GOOD scotch. :p
  10. bkt

    bkt New Member

    When has the BATFE ever looked good?

    If you want some more entertaining stories about ATF screw-ups (recent and past) head over to Sipsey Street Irregulars