ATF Gone Wild

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Yarddawg, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Yarddawg

    Yarddawg New Member

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  2. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    ....Cory's actual response can not be posted because it may provide fuel for the government "observers" who surely watch this site... So, in lieu i will post this.

    Even though this seems like a minor issue to some because "why would anyone need to buy more than 1 gun in 5 days?" it is simply one more step towards taking our guns....

    ... From my cold dead hands.
     

  3. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    we all know that the drive by on those damn squirrels is coming. THe terrorist will be invading with an army of 10-22's and it needs stopped!:eek::rolleyes:

    It's just one more in a plethora of baby steps to wring gun rights from our greedy ungrateful little fingers. WE need to be saved from ourselves. WE just are not smart enough to understand what is good for us. And we all know we can trust the gubmint to take care of us.:rolleyes:
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i dont understand the big deal. they ALREADY know what guns you buy when you fill out the federal transfer papers. to get a list all they gotta do is say "ok all ffl turn in your forms" they also prolly aready record who has what when the call goes out for a go/nogo background check.

    im not defending it i just dont understand why people are getting worked up over something they already record.
     
  5. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    The big deal is while we try to get them out of our lives more they are worming themselves in deeper. If this isn't a bug deal them mazybe it isn't when they try to tell you that you don't need more than one or two guns.."Sorry sir..you own enough so just go on home."
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    they cant currently do it. but it wont be long until the libs ban all civil rights not just guns. they already ban smoking eating drinking drugs free speech etc. they force you to wear seatbelts and tell you to submit to searches wihout warrant when traveling. the list goes on. if we only get upset by a list of purchases they will let you focus on that as they erode every other freedom one at a time.

    magic shrooms and pot grow wild and just having some in your yard and its prison time. try smoking in public see what happens. i just think our priorities are out of wack. i dont care if they keep a list of things they already have access to.

    the fact they already have that list is what concerns me.
     
  7. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    Interesting point. Especially if they require a digital 4473 to be filled out. They could simply demand all FFL's to submit all their 4473's and if they were digital, import them into a database with ease. They could then do a simple query, filtered on people who have bought more than X guns in Y time and come knocking on your door. While they are not allowed to maintain the records from the required instant background check, this would be an easy run around on that and a reliable one.
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    they are also not allowed to record the nudie pics they take of people in their new unconstitutional body scanners either but they do and the images turn up from time to time on the interweb... i put zero faith in a govt that lists murderers like ted kennedy and child molesters like barnie frank as honored members.
     
  9. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    The problem with maintaining an ongoing record of all the background checks is that the system to do so would be very large and require maintenance and ongoing checks and a decent size operation to do so. Database management is my day job, it would be really difficult to maintain those records without being obvious about it.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    oh im not saying they are actively doing it now i just dont put it past those scum to start it up whenever they feel froggy without advertising it.
     
  11. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    ATF tried to digitize all 4473's turned over by out of business FFL's several years ago. Congress ordered them to cease and decist and destroy everything they had already done.

    When the FFL calls in for the thumb up or down, all they tell ATF is long gun or handgun. They do not elaborate and ATF does not ask.

    The reason for the new rules on multiple purchases is the increase in straw purchases. Apparently a lot of AR's and other SUR's are being shipped south and are turning up with the cartels.

    Next will be the capture of sales information on uppers as FA lowers are being refurbished with new uppers purchased in the US and exported.

    A few DB's have screwed the pooch again making life more difficult for all of us.
     
  12. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    I am going to wait until it passes and go out and buy 6 or 7 long guns at the same time, just so I get a knock at my door wanting to see them.
     
  13. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Jon, as an FFL I gotta tell ya, paranoia isn't gonna be your best tool on this.

    First off, all the gov't knows when you buy a gun is whether it is a handgun, long gun or other (frame/receiver,pistol gripped shotgun) now, after I write in the actual gun you bought, and remove it from my A&D Book that form gets put into a book of it's own, and stacked on a pile of books full of forms.
    The Dept. of Justice can call after they find a particular gun (normally at a crime scene) and have me look up when did I sell the gun & to whom. Every once in awhile the ATF beancounters will come around to make sure I have been carefully keeping records & that my inventory is correct. They have taken some of these records out of the store in the past, but it is fairly rare for them to suggest it. Even so, when the po-po comes around to your door, asking for a particular gun that you lost at a crime scene, you can always just say "I sold that last week." I don't know about where you live, but in Arizona private sale does not require either the buyer, or the seller to keep records. This is why I hafta tell people every week that :There is No gun registration in Arizona- Yet... No thanks to that bag of puss McCain
    Now, if you go buy somewhere that they use the computer to do the form (like Wal-Mart) I don't know, maybe the feds can see just what you bought...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  14. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    This all makes me look forward to the next gunshow or private purchase opportunity. I prefer used firearms anyway.

    The rifles turning up with the cartels, have they been traced back to FFL's, or could they be from the Mexicant army's "losses"?


    Oh, come now Robo, we shouldn't call the ATFers DB's; it should be spelled out to avoid confusion. ;)
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I will go on record as saying I work with a number of ATF agents that have never given me reason to call them DB or JBT's or any other such acronym commonly thrown around. The politicos that run the outfit may be of the afformentioned ilk, however.

    The average agent (in my experience) is an underpaid Federal officer doing his/her best to do a good job at their assignment. They (like many of us) have to deal with bosses that give them their marching orders. Some of those orders seem to defy logic at times.

    Was that neutral enough?
     
  16. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    LOL! I was making fun of them. What i meant was that they could confuse "DB" to mean "dead body" and go E-snooping stormtrooper on you. :D
     
  17. 556plinker

    556plinker New Member

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    Funny

    Lets just cut to the chase and BAN private firearm ownership.......please do it now for the children, society and betterment of the world. Let's just get it ON and over with. This piece meal crap is driving me crazy. I just laugh at this shiite.....come and get them! Molon Labe....cold dead fingers, and all that shiite. Are we that stupid????? I think not.....the people are still in control and if you think any law is going to control the idiotic, redneck, patriotic 2nd ammend. loving, gun shooting, squirrel eating, deer shooting morons you are crazy. No matter what happens or what crazy dumb a$$ law is passed it doesn't matter because we (me included) are not going to the slaughter like sheep. Trust me this is a non-issue!
     
  18. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    I think you did great,
    I have met many many more cops who I thought deserved the JBT title than federal employees... Then again I haven't met more than maybe 20 feds
     
  19. TexasPatriot

    TexasPatriot New Member

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    Why worry about it? Those boys over at F-Troop are our most bestest friends. They would never do anything that might detract from our enjoyment of our constitutional rights...