At what point would you disarm?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by dewey, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. dewey

    dewey New Member

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    I watched a video the other day and a LEO.(dont know if he was ATF,FBI, or WTF) came to a gun range to speak to a guy. As I remember it, the guy was running for some office, like the Senate.(I never heard of him, and dont know why he was contacted by the LEO.) The LEO. ordered everyone to disarm and turn off the video recorder.
    My question to you is: at what point will you willfully disarm if asked or ordered to do so? I am not inclined to disarm at the request or order to do so. (especially on private property). I can think of ONE off the top of my head. There could be others. I would turn my weapon over to authorities if I had fired the weapon (in a case of self defence) and the law needed it to pursue an investigation.
    What about a traffic stop? I was pulled over once, and informed the trooper of my sidearm, but he wasnt bothered by it.
    Just wondering who has thought this through.
     
  2. RadioActiV

    RadioActiV New Member

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    If you could; could you post the video or the link to the video? I would like to see this video.
     

  3. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    If I am holding a firearm, and a LEO orders me to put it down, I will. I am addicted to life. If the gubmit makes a law that says to turn them in, then I will have to enlighten them about how they were all lost at sea during the FTF boating accident. Sad day that was...:(

    You do realize that private property is only private when law enforcement is not around, right? Now, if an officer shows up at my door and asks to look around for guns, then they have to abide by my 4th Amendment rights.

    Good question, but a bit misleading or this could be a fishing expedition? Your motivation for this is what?
     
  4. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSx0xpQc-4E]YouTube - Federal Agents Harass and Intimidate Congressional Candidate Charles Black for 40 mins.[/ame]

    here ya go!
     
  5. bigbad-ratman

    bigbad-ratman New Member

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    I think there is more to that video than we are seeing right now. But to answer the question, the moment a uniformed officer, or someone who identified themselves as such and produced something stating that they were LEO, (a badge, a vest, a lanyard around their chest etc.) I would lower my weapon. At a gun range where someone "just wanted to talk to me", I would holster my weapon and leave the camera running.
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    There's a difference between disarm and "stop shooting". If someone asked me to please stop shooting so he could talk to someone, that's fine. Hopefully, he'd have the smarts to pull that person aside and walk away from the range so everyone could resume.

    But if someone asked me to hand over a weapon and there was no good reason, then I'd...resist. Let's put it that way.

    Also, in the case of the Feds being jerks, I'd walk a few yards away and call the sheriff and ask him or her to come down seeing as he or she is the law enforcement officer with the most authority in a county and the sheriff can tell the feds to scram.
     
  7. ALSGUN

    ALSGUN New Member

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    I don't know what the laws are, but if an LEO asked for me to put down a weapon, I would comply and worry about the legality and the rights later. Right or wrong, there are to many bad things that could happen to me or others around me.
     
  8. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    BKT + 1

    If your asked to cease fire or disarm by an LEO who is acting in the course of their duties, then do so.

    If you feel there out of line, call your County Sheriff and get a lawyer.

    TACK
     
  9. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    I’ve just spent the last 10 minutes listening over and over to the video and trying to hear what the agents say when the video first starts but it is not easy because the music is loud and overlaid the agents first statements. But from what I can hear the agents before they get out of the car ask if everyone is unloaded and Mr. Black states everyone is unloaded and it’s alright. At no time does the agent ask anyone to unload or put down their gun he just ask if everyone is unloaded. This is normal for an officer when they approach a number of people when weapons are out and visible. The agent ask the subject if he would step to the back of the truck to talk and he declined and said he was fine right where he was and the agent did not push the issue and let the guy stay where he wanted. His wife was a little smart mouthed and pointed at the truck and said that is the back, when it was clear the agent was just trying to be professional and meant the back of the truck away from the public. I don’t know why the agents wanted to talk to Mr. Black and the video does not clarify that, however, from watching the video the agents were professional, polite, and non-aggressive and seemed to be just doing a field interview. Other than them physically being there and wanting to ask some questions would someone please tell me where the “harassment” is?
     
  10. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Two things come to mind.
    1st, 2 Okaloosa county deputies shot at a gun range (one was a close friend) while trying to serve a warrant.
    2nd, Does having a "cold" range means disarming? The girl seemed to be walking out on the range during the interview.
     
  11. dewey

    dewey New Member

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    Good question, but a bit misleading or this could be a fishing expedition? Your motivation for this is what?[/QUOTE]

    There is nothing misleading about my question. What is misleading? I dont know what a fishing expedition is, or care.

    My motivation is this: AT WHAT POINT DO YOU DISARM?

    Examples:

    Natural Disaster.
    In your own home.
    Guns declared illegal.
    Jesus returns and asks nicely.
    Concealed carry is outlawed
    Etc.
     
  12. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    The officer asked them to do a few things, they declined to do so. There seemed to have been no issue. The officer continued to do his job.

    I'm more wondering about what the law is over the video tape. I know my state of Maryland the person recording could be prosecuted over releasing that video. I don't agree with the law but that's what is happening in my state right now.

    He was just making sure you are not trying to bait people into an answer that can make the firearms community look bad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2010
  13. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO New Member

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    There are states (Colorado is one of them) that explicitly allow the officer, in a traffic stop, to disarm anyone that is carrying, for the duration of the stop.
     
  14. dewey

    dewey New Member

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    Dzscoobie,


    "Other than them physically being there and wanting to ask some questions would someone please tell me where the “harassment” is?"

    Dont get me wrong, The fellow being quizzed by the authorities was not being treated badly. I'm not saying that. The video just happened to be the genesis of my question. I knew there would be a million different answers to this question, because there are probably a million different scenerios that could lead up to it.
     
  15. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I seen nothing that the agents did that was out of line or aggressive.

    Now if they would have come flying up the road at 50 mph jump out of the SUV in BLACK Tactical gear run over tackle everyone and cuff them all and prone them out. I would have a problem with that. It looks to me like they were just conducting a field interview. Why you would do it at a range is beyond me. He gets out and asks "Is everyone unloaded". He never says "Unload and bring all your weapons back here and put them in the back of the SUV" so how was he disarming them?

    He didn't have any hearing protection and if someone started opening up it would have hard to talk.

    I can also understand why he would want to me the person he was talking to to the back of a vehicle just to be on the safe side in case someone does do something stupid you have protection.

    to me he was just trying to be safe and courteous. If anyone was rude it was the wife and Mr. Black for their attitude towards the agents.
     
  16. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    When do you disarm!

    You don't untill you Know that you rights aren't being violated. And That your life is not in danger. When push comes to shove I'll shoot first and answer Questions later. Don't Tread on me!!!!11:eek:
     
  17. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    Dewey,

    I don't have a problem with your question and don't think it is an unreasonable question to bring up in this forum, however, I do think that by using that particular video as a basis for your question was not the best example you could have used. Actually I think just posing the question and not using the video would have focused attention on your question rather than on the video.

    I will address your original question on at what time would I disarm myself. To me there is no black and white answer to this question and it would also depend on the individual. As a career LEO I would not have a problem disarming myself to an officer if I knew it to be for a legitimate reason (and I have). I would evaluate each situation on its own merit and make my decision at that time. I will give you an example.

    A couple of years ago I was driving from El Paso back to Washington DC and was going the southern route on I-10. I was stopped in Mississippi for speeding (I know I wasn’t paying attention and did not have a cruise control). As is my personal policy when the officer came up I had my hands on the steering wheel and my fingers spread, I advised him I was armed and my weapon was in a holster set between my seat and the center console on my right side. The officer (State Trooper) asked me to step out and to the back of the car. He asked where I was going and if the weapon was mine, I advised him it was my duty weapon and I was a LEO. He asked for my credentials and requested I wait at the back of my car. He retrieved my weapon and returned to his car. A short time later he returned my creds and weapon and asked me to slow down. In all this took about 15 minutes but I can understand why he did what he did as I-10 is a major drug corridor and I was from out of state. I think it was good police work on his part and he was very professional. Now, if Billy Bob came out to the range and demanded I unload or wanted to take my weapons and put them in his car because he was being an A** with no reasonable… I repeat reasonable, reason why then we would have a problem.

    Again all I can say is I would judge each situation by its reasonableness and take it from there.
     
  18. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    Will, come on man this is just a dumb blank statement, your smarter than that.
     
  19. cmhill

    cmhill New Member

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    I had heard about the incident down in fl, but i also heard multiple stories?:confused: can you clarify anything at all about the incident?
     
  20. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    In The Heat of The Moment!!!

    Thats Why I'm Still Alive!!!!!:eek::)