Article "Have Gun-Must Flaunt It?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Car54, May 1, 2010.

  1. Car54

    Car54 New Member

    This was an article in the Wall Street Journal. 4-30-10

    I know this subject has been beaten to death but articles like this only tend to flame the fires of the liberals and those who fear guns. Just wait until the majority of businesses post "no guns allowed" signs and see where we all end up. And to be honest, I wouldn't blame them a bit.

    Para-phrasing Mr. David Stoner, " I believe that it be mandated that every male over 18 years of age own at least 5 semi-automatic handguns with hi capacity mags, and 2 assault type rifles, and if anyone refuses they must wear a pink sundress while away from their property. But, no one carrying a gun, should wear it visible to the public."

    Have Gun, Must Flaunt It?


    Like a fly on a birthday cake, the subject of open carry—legally wearing a gun in public—keeps landing in the news and nobody can swat it down. Those who would like to be rid of it range from some of the most ardent gun-controllers to some of the fiercest believers in the Second Amendment right to bear arms. Many of the latter live in the 43 states where it already is legal to openly wear a handgun (although rules vary about whether it can be loaded, etc.). That the majority of people who could walk around outfitted for the OK Corral choose not to do so ought to be a hint that the minority who are most eager to force open carry on the rest of us might belong in a special category of bozos.

    Consider the case of James Goldberg, who walked up to the counter of a Glastonbury, Conn. Chili's restaurant in 2007 costumed in camouflage and wearing a pistol. Police were called and Mr. Goldberg was arrested, only to be cleared after it was determined that since he had a permit for the weapon he was not breaking a law.

    While news reports in 2007 described Mr. Goldberg as the night manager at a liquor store, he told the Hartford Courant this month that he is a "trained firearms instructor, sells guns at a Newington gun retailer and runs a business that provides security for business executives and entertainment industry celebrities." Whatever else Mr. Goldberg is, he's a thoroughly modern Millie. Back in the day, authentic cowboys didn't sue when the going got tough, especially not for "emotional distress."

    Equally unimpressive were the armed types who gathered in a Virginia Park this month to demonstrate support for open carry and their opposition to government in general and the Obama administration in particular. Like the characters who now make a practice of wearing handguns into Starbucks and other places of business, such demonstrators may yet turn out to be a godsend for the antigun crowd.

    The latter can be so annoying that at some demented level it is possible to imagine the appeal of strolling the aisles at, say, a Whole Foods store, squeezing free-range chicken and bagging edamame with a Hammerli 208S target pistol on display. Yet a firearms dealer suggested to me this week that if open carrying were to become more common, even those of us who are uneasy now in the presence of public firearms would get used to seeing them around. After all, he said, a man "in the 1870s who left Philadelphia and went to Wyoming . . . was probably nervous as hell because everyone was toting a six-gun."

    Which is why they called it the Wild West and we are lucky not to have been born then. Knowing Americans, however, if the open carry fad gathers steam in this century, at some point the urge to trump the Joneses might well extend to guns. They could even become fashion must-haves. A recent article in Women & Guns magazine noted that a number of firearms and shooting accessories now come in colors meant to appeal to female tastes. As the article's headline asked, "Is Pink the New Black?"

    Surveys suggest that serious shooters are not particularly drawn to girlie colors. But what about the rest of the female population? The same forces that compel women to change pocketbooks and fingernail colors may add a vexing new list of daily dressing decisions, like "What color pistol grip goes with this outfit?" Next thing you know, women could be trading tips on the Web about the best way to attract men in a world where every girl can have a gun. Should she try to stand out from the crowd with a piece of rustic exotica that reminds him of the safari dolls in 1953's "Mogambo," like a .416 Rigby? Or go with something more crudely flashy, like one of the pretend AK-47s?

    Speaking of serious shooters, I don't know a soul among gun owners who is itching to prance around showing everybody what is in their holster. Most of the time, citizens who carry weapons in public places are doing it for protection, and that means concealment. They don't want their handgun easily grabbed by some idiot in a checkout line, and they don't want a potential aggressor to know what they have on them or where it is. If flashing an armory were anything but a stunt, our air marshals would be strapped like Pancho Villa.

    Ms. Smith is a member of the Journal's editorial board and a TV critic.
  2. collegekid20

    collegekid20 New Member

    I believe open carry does two things, It deters crime and gets people comfortable with the idea of guns. When I go to wal-mart and one of my friends is open carrying people rarely notice. However, I live in a gun friendly area, Richmond, Virginia. However, Concealed Carry allows you the element of surprise and no hassle if you live in a gun unfriendly state. Just my opinion on the subject though.

  3. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

    I personaly am kinda torn on the open carry issue. My first thoughty is that the 2nd ammendment garauntees the right to keep and bear arms, it doesn't say thay they have to be kept hidden so as to not offend anyone. On the other hand, ( remember I live in Jersey) if I was to carry it would be concealed only, and not so I don't offend anyone but because I really dont see a need to carry openly. Now I don't think the LAW should make any distinction between open and concealed, it should be to carry, open or concealed at the discretion of the individual.
    I think the article itself was insulting.
  4. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

    I think this question comes down to "where you live" and the prevailing attitude of your neighbors toward guns.

    I've been carrying concealed for 15 yrs and can't imagine why anyone in there right mind would choose to advertise the fact that they were armed?

    Sorta negates any advantage you might have had should a fight come your way...

    Tacticaly speaking, it makes ZERO sense.

  5. opaww

    opaww New Member

    I Have a CCWP and do not open carry not because I can't but because I don't want others knowing I am carrying. That is just me though. Look at it this way about open carry.

    If it was say a whole troop of police officers running around town no one would say one dam word about them having handguns or even AR-15 slung while they were doing so.


    If the Army decided to man the streets fully armed no one would say a word about open display of guns.

    But let one civilian open carry and they all panic and run around like chickens with their heads cut off. If you are lucky to live in an area with some cool cops they might just check you out but if you live in a dictatorship town then you will have swat up your *** so fast that it won't even hurt your Hemorrhoids until after the fact.

    For whatever reason the sheep tend to believe that being a cop or solder automatically means trained to the highest degree. When it is known on the average CCW people tend to train more then either of them do. As a CCWP holder it is my responsibility to keep up on Laws and practice with my weapon. I do this no less then once a week, but to the sheep I am untrained because I am a civilian.
  6. spittinfire

    spittinfire Active Member Supporter

    I'm a little torn on the issue personally but I think if a person wants to carry openly then they should be able to. Under the right circumstances I carry openly, usually around my house or when in the yard but when I go out it gets concealed.
  7. bkt

    bkt New Member

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

    I don't see anything about concealed or open carry in that. It's your choice how you want to carry.

    If Ms. Nancy DeWolf Smith fills her pants at the sight of a firearm then the problem lies with her, not with the firearm or the person carrying it. Does she also freak out at the sight of a person in a wheelchair? How about a bald person?

    Ms. Smith apparently did not attend the recent Virginia event or she would have understood that it wasn't about open carry or the second amendment in particular.
  8. opaww

    opaww New Member

    What bkt said
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    What bkt said is right.

    I'm looking forward to the passage of an open carry law in OK.
  10. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

    The right To Bear arms

    Morning People. How many of you followed the news on what happened in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Not only did some of NOPD's Finest Loot the Guns From all the Gun Stores, Then Take Vehicles From Dealerships. Then left the State. The NOPD then started taking all the guns from Private Citizens. It Didn't make rats azz wether you had a permit or not. They even beat up an old lady that had a shot gun and was protecting what she had left from the flood. To this date I don't think any guns were returned to their owners. This is what is Going to happen WTSHTF. When it Does, The Fun is gonna start, They will have to kill me before I give them whats mine. They can take all the lead they can carry! God Bless, Be Safe,Have a nice day!
  11. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

    This is true. NRA has been working since Katrina to secure redress for those disarmed and working to pass legislation limiting "emergency powers" to ban the confiscation of firearms durring such an event, exactly when the public needs them most.

    While I respect LEO's, I do agree with your "lead first" position on this topic. I just hope it does not come to this and support NRA efforts to change the laws so hopefully, it can not happen again.

  12. Last Crow

    Last Crow New Member

    PA is an open carry state. It is very rare to see some one carrying. I think most people don’t even know that open carry is legal in PA. The exception is at TEA party events. I bought a holster for either a 1911 or 92FS. It is a pain wearing one of theses pistols, they are heavy. I have trouble keeping my paints up wearing one. It is easy just to put a 380 in my pocket.
  13. General-Logic

    General-Logic New Member

    If SHTF happens then it will be a bloodbath for the jackboots. They won't understand whats going on for a week or two then the military will go ape**** and begin actual Soviet/Nazi tactics. The French Underground will have a brother in the American people. It won't be pretty.
  14. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

    From a coworker, he knew some people in New Orleans that had their weapons confiscated. These folks did get their weapons returned to them but in horrible condition. It seems the weapons were just tossed into a ConEx container and left to rust.

    As for open carry, Nevada is a "can carry" state which means we have no laws against open carry. I OC quite often and the only eyeballs I get are from the tourists, mostly those from the People's Republik of Kalifornia. I've recounted this story before but while OC at a Mickey D's, a Metro motorcycle officer came in. While waiting for our food, we had a discussion on the pros and cons of Sigs (mine) and Glocks (his).
  15. LegatoRedrivers

    LegatoRedrivers New Member

    I never open carry, but I do see their point. Knowing there are guns around does reduce crime, Dug up this old article:

    25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'

    That fun fact is almost as fun to pull out on Anti-gun advocates as Freud's Quote:

    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
    in his General Introduction to Psychoanalysis (1952)

    Can't remember which forum member I grabbed that little gem from, but I thank him!
  16. ALSGUN

    ALSGUN New Member

    While I have to agree that it is my right to carry either open or concealed is mine, I do not feel that it is to my advantage either strategically or politically.
    In these highly volatile times of pro vs anti gunners it is to our advantage to not rock the boat so to speak.
    We may win a battle or two, but as more and more business put out signs baning guns on their properties, legally I might add, it will hurt us all, as a mom out with her kids at "Micky D's" is offended by "joe show my guns", who would not have cared one way or the other before, now becomes an anti-gunner, we will all suffer. Businesses will sway to the side of not offending the moms because the dollar is more important and that is a fact.
    We must not let our emotions, but our intelligence rule.
  17. RTMiller

    RTMiller New Member

    I agree 100% but in the absence of a CCP you must choose between 'advertising' or going unprotected. Not everyone can get a permit. It's very hard here in Delaware.

    This is really the heart of the matter. The 2A does NOT say you have the right to bear arms BUT you have to open carry so everyone can see you are armed. From a legal point of view I can't understand how these laws that water down the 2A can stand. The courts don't allow 1A free speech rights to be watered down in this fashion. Why do they allow it for 2A rights?

    In my state, more criminals carry concealed than to do law-abiding citizens. Last month, someone got shot on the streets of Wilmington every day for 9 consecutive days! All criminals. All carrying concealed.

    But if I want to carry a gun, I have to open carry.

    As I get older (and wiser), I leaning toward the idea that any law-abiding citizen should be allowed to CC if they desire. Why should criminals have the advantage?

    The way I see it, if more people were carrying you would never have an incident like Fort Hood where one nut kills 12 and injures 30. If more people carried, someone would have dropped him after 1 or 2.

    Just my opinion.
  18. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

    I don't see what the big deal it. It's part of that right many of us spend a lot of time talking about. If you don't want to then don't. If you do great. I'll bet that about 90% of criminals carry theirs concealed. Tactical advantage I guess to a point. But most all LEO keep it where it can be both seen and readily available.I'd say old Spanky the bad guy would keep it in his pants though if he seen a half dozen people with prime examples of the genius of JMB on their hip.
  19. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Since the Bill of Rights originally pertained only to the Federal government and not state governments, and since 2A has not been incorporated against the states, state governments may limit 2A including how or whether carrying is allowed.

    1A has been incorporated against the state (and thus lower) governments.

    The trick is to get 2A unequivocally incorporated the same way 1A is.
  20. WannaGator

    WannaGator New Member

    I believe in both Open & Concealed carry.

    Unfortunately our culture in the US is quickly devolving into Europe's Nanny State mentality.