Armor Piercing

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by PeteZaHut, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    After doing a little research online, my understanding is that "true" AP rounds are not readily available, although you might be able to find SOME rounds in calibers such as 30-06. My question is what caliber rifle round (including rifled slugs) that is readily available for purchase has the best chance of penetrating body armor.

    ***No, I'm not planning on doing anything illegal. Bad guys can wear bullet proof vests too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  2. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That was my first thought.
    Bulletproof armor is not as common as Hollywood would have you believe and as far as I know does provide complete body coverage.
     

  3. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    30-06 is not a caliber -- .308 is.

    Don't know if you can still order steel shanked copper jacketed lead .308 bullets in 200 grain.

    To push a heavy bullet like that you need a 300 magnum rifle of some kind.

    And you need to reload them yourself -- they are not normally for sale.

    They work like a charm though -- they will go through anything.

    These are normally used for hunting brown bears.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  4. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    damn near any centerfire rifle will penetrate soft body armor
     
  5. t_humm

    t_humm New Member

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    To the best of my knowledge M2 Ball AP is the most common true "ap" ammo. I have a few repackaged 20 round packs of it, but I believe I've seen it in surplus cans at a few gun shows.
     
  6. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    AP ammo is meant to penetrate steel vehicle armor and hard body armor like I stated earlier not even lvl IIIa soft body armor is capable of stopping rifle rounds only when a hard rifle plate is used do you gain any ballistic protection from a rifle
     
  7. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think we should be discussing the how-tos of defeating armor.
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    any 30-06 150grain up will zip through all commercially available soft vests and trauma plates both sides as will 308 and all hunting rifle rounds like 30-30 270 243 25-06 7mm 8mm etc. you do not need actual ap ammo. it wont work any better on a vest than non-ap.

    its a hollywood myth that ap rounds are magically better on vests. the way ap works is the bullet hits a very hard surface (plate armor) and the steel penetrator slices through the armour. vests work by providing a softer surface and slowing the bullet down distributing its energy over the mass of the vest fibers.

    works like a catchers mitt. this means a thick enough vest the penetrator core never comes into play. even on a trauma plate its going to have no advantage over regular bullets. your just wasting money on ap rounds.

    less of course the goblins are in an armoured car. then it might be handy...

    things like ak and ar15 loads may have trouble with plates.

    however if you radically shorten rifle barrels they become very poor performers and in the case of things like 5.56 and 7.62x39 are easily outclassed by 22magnum and 22lr hyper velocity rounds when barrels are cut below 12"

    and your right, vests are being more widely used by goblins in home invasions.

    if your really concerned, a 45-70 marlin lever gun using buffalo bore bear rounds will eat a vested goblin.

    you could also use a 458winmag 500 grain copper solids. they are used on things like elephants rhinos and cape buffalo...
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  9. PeteZaHut

    PeteZaHut New Member

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    What about hollow point rifle rounds?
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    doesnt matter.

    real rifle rounds have too much energy and speed for the soft vests and plates available to civilians.

    some pistol rounds defeat most vests. 7.62x25 tokarev is one 500s&w another...

    one other thing: actual ap rounds are illegal in a lot of places.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  11. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Not to mention the fact that the energy from the round is still exerted upon the body inside the vest. Even if it doesn't manage to poke a hole in you it still will put you down with a case of the hurts.
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    First, lose the term "bullet proof". There ain't no such critter. There ARE bullet resistant things. If you think something is bullet proof- you have not met the right bullet. May I introduce my friends Mr. 30mm GAU-8, and his cousin, Mr. 120MM Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot. :p

    Second, soft body armor was intended to protect the wearer from HANDGUN ammunition. Which is why there is a Federal ban on manufacture or importing of armor piercing HANDGUN ammo.

    An M1 carbine- a pretty wimpy round- will shoot thru steel car wheels at 30 yards. A regular FMJ 7.62 NATO round will shoot thru an M113 Armored Personnel Carrier. Most body armor will slow it down a little.

    Go look up the energy of some common rifle rounds, versus common handgun rounds. A .308 runs ABOUT 2,500 ftlbs of energy. Unlike a 9mm Parabellum, at about 430 ftlbs.

    Green tipped 5.56 mm is "enhanced penetration" ammo, as is black tipped 30-06 m (sold by the US Civilian marksmanship program). And yes, 30-06 is recognized as a cartridge name.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  13. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    !.......................
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  14. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is my reading of the law, in Florida, that pistol AP rounds are illegal. There is no mention of rifle AP rounds. If the rifle AP rounds were illegal here, that would be a real legal issue with many 7.62 x 39 rounds that have the steel core.
     
  15. ebiss9

    ebiss9 Member Supporter

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    A while back Rocky Mountain Reloading was selling pulled MK 318 Mod 0 SOST 62 grain 5.56x 45mm bullets. These are supposed to be increased barrier penetration projectiles designed for the Marine Corps. It's not an AP but may satisfy certain requirements. I don't know if they are still available or they may be listed under AB-49.
     
  16. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    For anti-personnel use there is no reason to have AP ammo. Standard rifle ammo will penetrate soft armour and SWAT/Mil hard plates will stop AP up to and including .30-06. You are not gaining anything with expensive Armour Piercing ammo
     
  17. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Change point of aim. Faces are seldom armored.
     
  18. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    That right there ^^^.

    Knees are also good. Armored or not, they are not supposed to bend backwards.
     
  19. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Hips, pelvic girdle, upper legs have large blood supply and also are key for support in walking. At least one of the Hollywood bank robbers was taken down with lower extremity hits.