I'm moving to Arizona in the near future (as soon as our home is constructed) and am curious about the legality of some AR15 items. I understand that machine guns are legal if the BATF is paid a 'user' fee. If that is a fact, could one have an AR15 carbine legally converted to fire full auto (select fire) by paying this fee?
Arizona AR15 questions:
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In Arizona, assuming you paid the $200 fee and pass the background check, the answer is "Yes".
Arizona is a VERY firearm friendly state - you lucky bastard.... LOL
JD
There are separate parts that will be needed, so it's not a garage conversion in the basic sense. You would need an M-16 Bolt Carrier group, along with some other parts, which have to be ordered legally through a dealer and they would be subject to a background check and all the usual paperwork. If memory serves, there are about 6 or 8 parts that are needed, plus the AR lower would need to be modified to handle the new fire control selector. Honestly, it might be cheaper and easier to obtain residency, and then purchase a built M4/M16 style lower than trying to convert an existing AR-15 model.
JD
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There is a MAJOR problem with "Making a machinegun". Law passed in May 1986- only those full autos ALREADY REGISTERED with the BATF can be transferred to a civilian, and no more can be made. IF you have a pre-1986 registered SEAR, it can be used to convert an AR to full- along with the other parts you will need. However, this law put he price of LEGAL full auto's thru the roof- about $16,000 for a LEGAL, TRANSFERABLE M-16. (No, that was not a typo- sixteen thousand dollars) BTW, the fee is a transfer tax- Feds get $200, transfer is thru a Class III dealer only (in your state of residence) There are then limts on where you can take it, etc. If you really want one, wait until you move, then go find a Class III dealer in your new state, and get your checkbook out. No whimpering, please. 
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Good catch. You cannot just convert an AR to full auto legally. The $200 tax stamp is for OWNERSHIP only. To convert one, you would need to be licensed as a manufacturer by BATFE, and even then, the weapon could not be transferred (a few exceptions, like to a L/E agency), and would have to be destroyed if you decide to let your manufacturers license lapse. Only way for "regular" people to own a full auto is tax stamp and 5,000-20,000There is a MAJOR problem with "Making a machinegun". Law passed in May 1986- only those full autos ALREADY REGISTERED with the BATF can be transferred to a civilian, and no more can be made. IF you have a pre-1986 registered SEAR, it can be used to convert an AR to full- along with the other parts you will need. However, this law put he price of LEGAL full auto's thru the roof- about $16,000 for a LEGAL, TRANSFERABLE M-16. (No, that was not a typo- sixteen thousand dollars) BTW, the fee is a transfer tax- Feds get $200, transfer is thru a Class III dealer only (in your state of residence) There are then limts on where you can take it, etc. If you really want one, wait until you move, then go find a Class III dealer in your new state, and get your checkbook out. No whimpering, please.
spare George Washingtons laying around.
Is that right? I thought if you had a class III License, and where in a Class III state, you could produce legal Class III firearms. For ownership the $200 tax stamp would be applicable, on top of the price of the item in question. Is that a loophole that you can't sell them except to police and L/E or something of that nature? That is something that I did not know. I stand corrected....There is a MAJOR problem with "Making a machinegun". Law passed in May 1986- only those full autos ALREADY REGISTERED with the BATF can be transferred to a civilian, and no more can be made. IF you have a pre-1986 registered SEAR, it can be used to convert an AR to full- along with the other parts you will need. However, this law put he price of LEGAL full auto's thru the roof- about $16,000 for a LEGAL, TRANSFERABLE M-16. (No, that was not a typo- sixteen thousand dollars) BTW, the fee is a transfer tax- Feds get $200, transfer is thru a Class III dealer only (in your state of residence) There are then limts on where you can take it, etc. If you really want one, wait until you move, then go find a Class III dealer in your new state, and get your checkbook out. No whimpering, please.
JD
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1,105 Posts
The $200 class 3 stamp is to own one that was manufactured prior to 1986. My buddy just went through this. He has his FFL and a class 3 for his personal F/A M16 (pre '86). He also has a seperate manufacturer's license which allows him to manufacture class 3, but again they can't be transferred to individuals and if he gives up his license, must be destroyed or transferred to LE. Any manufacture of F/A for individuals is a no no. I think BATFE has covered all the basis and closed the loopholes on affordable F/A. Dillinger- I realize you weren't responding to me, but I wasn't trying to correct you, I hope you didn't take offense. I looked long and hard at trying to come up with an affordable solution, but I don't think there is one (for me anyway). The manufacturers route is definietly cheaper (relatively speaking) than a pre 86 F/A, but limits what you can do with it. I may be wrong on this part, but I believe the manufacturer's "license" is $300 and it is an annual fee also.
No. Not at all Jeep - don't sweat it. Believe me, if I put bad information out there, because I got lazy or was just plain wrong, like in this case, believe me I want to know about it... LOL
The reason I am confused is because of too much information, quite frankly. I talked to the folks from Barrett Firearms at SHOT in Feb. They have a new uber assault weapon they are planning on marketing, the M468, and while their target audience is the military, they also represented to me that they would be willing to sell to licensed civilian owners if they could get a market established for it.
So, how does one make a new firearm, that is capable of full auto fire and then market it if the 1986 ruling puts a damper on that?!
Confusion Abounds on this end. I don't live in a Class III friendly state, so it really hasn't been an issue for me up to this point, but now I am really curious because there was a guy on here for awhile, gnoll, who lived in AZ and was always talking about his Class III stuff.....
JD
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I assume this is why F/A guns are priced so far out of reach of the average person! Looking through Shotgun News I saw a F/A Mac10 for ONLY $4000!!!
And that gun is a piece of Sh$%...you should see what they get for a Valmet or M-16 - now you're talking $15-20,000.
And that gun is a piece of Sh$%...you should see what they get for a Valmet or M-16 - now you're talking $15-20,000.
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Yeah, anything worth having is mega bucks. The guy I mentioned earlier cashed out a CD that was supposed to be for his kids' college fund and bought a stripped M16A1 lower for $14,000. Now, I would love to have an M16, and have been known to "re-allocate funds" to buy gun stuff, but even I told him that was a little over the top! His excuse was that it was an "investment".
*shaking head and whistling* That is just plain crazy man. I had no idea they were that much money.Yeah, anything worth having is mega bucks. The guy I mentioned earlier cashed out a CD that was supposed to be for his kids' college fund and bought a stripped M16A1 lower for $14,000. Now, I would love to have an M16, and have been known to "re-allocate funds" to buy gun stuff, but even I told him that was a little over the top! His excuse was that it was an "investment".
That guy gnoll who was on here for a while was making it sound like AZ was the place I need to be... but not at those prices... LOLA less scrupulious fellow could machine some parts in a well heeled garage shop and make some serious coin....
Thanks for the intel...
JD
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