Arguments against NOT carrying a revolver

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by JW357, Aug 3, 2013.

  1. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    First, let me preface with a few things.

    1) Being in Kalifornia, I do not yet have a CC permit here, so I do not carry.
    2) This is not intended to be an argument to try to get everyone to carry a revolver; I am simply trying to dispel some of the popular arguments against carrying wheel guns.

    Here we go:

    Argument against carrying a revolver, #1
    Limited capacity.

    This is a valid argument, and if I were to carry a revolver it might scare me if I were to be attacked by three or more attackers.

    A revolver typically has six rounds, sometimes five. What do you say to people who carry a .380, or a single stacked 9mm? Those types of guns typically have very similar capacity to a wheel gun. I would take six rounds of .38 Special +p anyway over the same amount of .380. An XDs in .45 ACP has 5+1, IIRC.

    If people can be comfortable carrying 6 rounds of .380 why can't they be comfortable carrying 6 rounds of .357 Magnum or .38 +p ?

    Argument against carrying a revolver, #2
    Slow reload time

    Any gun will have a slow reload time if you don't train with it. To me, once proficiency in the manual of arms is established, the next priority needs to be reloads. Even someone who carries a Glock 19 with a billion rounds in the magazine might have to reload. Most high capacity guys I know carry an extra magazine anyway, so right there they are admitting they might have to reload.

    If I were to train reloads on a revolver under situations where I have elevated adrenaline, such as after sprinting and whatnot, I bet I could get pretty quick with it. Especially if I used a spring-loaded speed loader, which I would if I were to carry a wheel gun. Last I checked those things are about $10-15 online, which is half the cost of most cheap magazines for semi-autos. Train with it, and I guarantee any wheel gun carrier can reload as fast as someone carrying a semi.

    Argument against carrying a revolver, #3
    Weight

    I personally consider this a throw-away argument because there are plenty of quality lightweight revolvers out there. S&W air weight J-Frames, Ruger LCRs, etc. the lightest .357 Magnum revolver is the S&W 340, 5 shot capacity, at 12 ounces. The lightest 9mm is the Diamondback DB9 at 11 ounces, 6 + 1. To me its so close that it isn't even an issue.

    Argument against carrying a revolver, #4
    Revolvers are antiquated technology

    Please. Why do semis have an advantage? Because of their capacity, which I've already talked about? How about because of their reload time, which I've already talked about? Maybe in their size. The cylinder on a revolver does lend itself to be wider than most, if not all, semis. But this isn't always a disadvantage. Some people's bodies are built to accept the shape a revolver better than the flat sides of a semi-auto.

    I honestly can't think of any other relatively valid arguments against revolvers. Perhaps you guys can contribute something I missed, and we can have a reasonable discussion.

    For what it's worth, the gun I've selected as my carry piece, for when I do get the permit, is a S&W M&P9c. But I have put serious thought into revolvers and single stacked 9mms. And I haven't ruled either out. At the end of the day, I want to be able to carry something I am comfortable with, regardless of the weather or my clothing.

    The bottom line is, carry something you are comfortable with, you shoot well, you reload fast, something you don't mind being taken away if you are involved in a shooting. Regardless of its platform or caliber.

    And don't begrudge someone for their carry choice. Doing so only shows a lack of maturity and ignorance on your part.

    EDIT: this post ended up being a lot longer than I had anticipated. Sorry about that. But I assure you, it was more painful for me to type it than it was for you to read it, as I did so on an iPad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  2. txpossum

    txpossum New Member

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    I would never argue against carrying a revolver. I normally carry a semi-auto, but sometimes I feel I need to bond more with my 2.5" barrel Model 19, and never feel under armed. I'm comfortable carrying either.
     

  3. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Nice gun. I have it's stainless brother, the 66-2 in the same barrel. I love it.
     
  4. Donn

    Donn Active Member

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    There is some merit to the multiple attackers scenario. That said, it's doubtful the others have to stones to continue after one of theirs is hit, particularly in the dark or subdued light when they encounter noise, muzzle and side flash of a short barrel revolver. High ammo capacity's no guarantee either. The Kehoe Brothers shootout with the Ohio State Patrol is still on You Tube. The Trooper empties his mag at a distance of 10 feet and hits nothing. Statistics show most SD episodes are 1-3 shots. I don't care what your EDC is, if you have to reload, it's no longer SD, it's a fire fight. In that case you're in deep excrement.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    if a person can shoot well and accurately with a revolver and practices with it on regular basis, i see nothing wrong with carrying a revolver over a semi-auto.

    a person can apply the same reasoning to the revolver vs. semi-auto debate, just like the caliber debate. same reasoning applies IMO. accurate shot placement trumps magazine capacity. hits with a revolver trump misses with a semi-auto pistol.

    good post JW!:D
     
  6. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    I agree on all points about the multiple attackers scenario. Also, to add to it, I believe every person needs to be able hit what he's aiming at. And needs to train accordingly.

    Personally I feel confident enough that if I'm in a SD situation from say, ten feet, with any of my current firearms, I should be able to make six well aimed hits to six attackers. Of course the situation dictates. But I don't feel like I need 18 rounds. If I run into more than six bad guys at one time anyway, either the rest will run when I start shooting it I will get shot before I can shoot them all. Regardless of platform I'm using.
     
  7. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Thanks Axxe! And I agree about the caliber as well, for the most part.
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i pocket carry a ruger lcp. its about the same thickness as a android smartphone and thats exactly what it looks like in my pocket.

    put a revolver of any type in a pocket and the outline looks like a gun in your pocket.

    when you pocket carry junk gets in the gun. pocket lint is a killer. with a semi auto im assured that no matter what 1 round is going off. with a revolver you get a little lint in the cylinder jamming it up and its a paperweight.

    if you carry iwb or owb its a moot point on that issue

    im not a fan of the long trigger pulls on da revolvers. if i was going to carry a revolver it would never be a da. while im no fan of the lcp trigger its size is a huge mitigating factor. so when i carry something larger i just dont want to be limited by the fiddly nature of revolvers.

    loading a semi auto requires gross muscular skill loading a revolver requires fine muscular skill. the first thing that goes out the window when your faced with a fight or flight situation when the adrenaline gets pumping is fine motor skills. this means if you have to manipulate the firearm its gotten exponentially more difficult trying to get the round bullets in the round holes.

    semi auto is easier to use under stress.
     
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    those are some good points Jon.
     
  10. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    I am very good with a revolver.
    I dont carry yet since I dont have my CC yet (even tho I moved ot a free state 15 mos ago, been busy) but when I do I intend to carry in fall/winter a GP100 3 inch w/ 6 rds of 357 Mag and in spring/summer a 38 spc snubbie.

    (already have both)

    The spring loaded speed loaders are amazing.
    My best reload times are down to 1.5 sec with them.
    I admit when something goes wrong (stuck shell etc) my reload times go up to 3 sec.
    (but shells stuck in cylinder never happen for me in a carry situation unless I fired a couple boxes first or unless its real dirty ammo ( which none of my carry ammo is)


    In any event first rounds are decisive anyway and the avg number of rds expended in civilian self defense scenarios is 1.7 rds......, yes , less than 2.

    So with 6 rounds you can solve a lot of problems.

    The fact that I have a greater effective range than a equivalent semiauto ( due to my fixed barrel, no moving slide, option of using SA from round 1) is while not decisive, certainly nice gravy on top.

    i'd feel very comfortable going up against the avg semi auto wielded by the avg crook.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    effective range is the exact same on a 5 inch barrel revolver as it is on a 5 inch barrel semi auto using the exact same ammunition. design of the gun (revolver/semi) has no advantage in range over the other.

    if you want to really nitpick revolvers have less muzzle velocity than an identical chambered semi due to the cylinder to forcing cone gap.
     
  12. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Regarding it printing in your pocket, I wouldn't know because I've never tried to carry in a pocket, and I have almost no desire to do so. But I would think this issue would again be negated by the right pocket holster, in the right pocket. Obviously too small, or too tight, of pockets shouldn't have a gun in there period.

    Point well taken on the trigger pull. It's simply a matter of personal preference. A lot of guys like the longer pull as it acts as a safety, as you know. Personally, I would think a DA pull of 5-6 lbs would be ideal? I'm really not sure if that's getting into the realm of dangerous, though.

    Now, loading. You're right, of course. But I still think loading a revolver with a spring loaded speed loader would negate some of the "gross motor skills vs fine motor skills" point. I don't have a spring loaded one yet, but I do have a speed loader. And loading six rounds at one time, for me, is not very difficult. I haven't done it under stress, but it still makes for an easier time of finding the holes than doing it one round at a time.

    I disagree with the very last line. I don't see a semi as being easier to operate under stress. Maybe for reloading, but I'm not even convinced of that. It doesn't get much simpler to shoot under stress than a point and shoot revolver. At best, I would say semis that don't have a manual safety or grip safety are on par with a revolver in terms of ease of shoot-ability in a stressful situation. But I would argue, regarding semis with thumb safeties, that there's more than can go wrong in a stressful situation. Is there a round in the chamber? Is the safety on? Do I have the grip safety pressed properly? Oh I better be careful and not accidentally hit the magazine release button while shooting. If I do, I hope my gun doesn't have a magazine disconnect safety.

    There are literally no variables at play while shooting a revolver. Draw the gun, present, pull trigger.

    To each his own, of course. Like I said, I haven't made a decision about carrying a revolver for myself yet. I do have an M&Pc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  13. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    what is the probability of a revolver malfunction....basically zero.

    semi-auto malfunction...highly unlikely, but more than zero.

    you can carry on an empty chamber in are revolver, and you are trigger pull from BANG! carry on an empty chamber in a semi-auto, you have to rack it.

    i think there is an almost zero chance of unarmed multiple attackers continuing to attack once a firearm has been displayed or discharged...they will run for the hills 99.8% of the time imo.

    armed multiple attackers? you are most likely F'd no matter what you carry. clint eastwood and mel gibson do great in the movies in this scenerio, but in real life....

    my opinion, the sight of firearm will defuse most situations. this is perhaps the BEST scenario in a self defense situation. if it ends without someone getting hurt or killed, it was a very successful use of a CC imo.

    in a true firefight, the revolver is at a disadvantage, but that doesn't mean it loses the battle. ability with any given firearm is more important.

    i just wish it was legal to CC a sawed off pistol grip shotgun.....:D....that would end this debate.
     
  14. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Your rith about the forcing cone gap but a same lenght of barrel auto is still at a disadvantage given its non fixed barrell.

    I know there are target semi auto loaders out there etc.. just referring to the most common designs
     
  15. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    oh...and have slid my un-holstered 640 into my short pockets and it doesn't print at all?? :confused:
     
  16. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I, eh, it's good to see you agree with me,

    when I'm carrying a revolver ?:confused:
     
  17. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    lots of places you might wantt o carry and be uber discrete. ive never seen a holster that when you put it in a pocket doesnt make it look like a gun is banging around in there when it comes to revolvers. they are just too wide.

    unless there is a armed guard on the door with a metal detector wanding everyone im carrying a firearm.

    i can tell you from experience loading a revolver fast is not an easy task under the effects of adrenaline even if you train hard. doing a bunch of running in place excersises situps push ups etc is NOT the same as someone trying to use you as a bullet stop.

    the main reason police and military switched to semi auto is because it is easier to operate under stress. pull gun pull trigger if reload is needed big square metal block in big hole pull slide. revolvers you either load one at a time or a speed loader wher all the rounds have to line up with each hole to get loaded AFTER you shake the old ones out some of which might stick in the chambers. requires a lot of gun manipulation.

    i no more would carry a revolver with a empty chamber than i would a semi with an empty chamber so if im carrying it its got a round in the pipe.

    revolver and semi are pretty equal up to the point you gotta load em up. thats where the big difference is. everything else is personal pref. if revolvers were easier the military and police agencies would still be using them. it costs a LOT to train someone to use a revolver well under stress its VERY easy to train someone to use a semiauto under stress. its why you dont see nations arming their front line soldiers with bolt actions.

    its cheaper to handout a lot of bullets and hope for a hit than it is to train someone to be really proficient with a revolver or bolt gun.
     
  18. readygirl

    readygirl New Member

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    Hospital parking garage in a bad neighborhood, 11pm, most of the lights dont work. Security Guard is asleep in his booth 4 floors down. bad guys travel in packs around here......I like knowing i have the 16rnds of .40 And i dont care if it "prints". Once im in the garage, i usually walk with it in my hand anyway. And YES...it has saved my a55 more than once.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  19. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I do not have a problem carrying either a revolver or an auto. I carry both. I have a 38 +p J frame that I pocket carry. I also have a Kahr CM9 that I pocket. I carry a bunch of different autos owb. But I also have a 4 inch 629. That is a 44 mag. I just shot the IDPA qualifier this morning with the 44. I was a score keeper. So I was paying attention to everyone's times. I am quite proficient with a speed loader. My times were better than some of the auto shooters.

    When it comes to multiple attackers... I think if I get off 2 shots with a 44 mag I don't think anyone is going to stick around. However if they do, again I am good to go with a speed loader.
     
  20. gr8oldguy

    gr8oldguy New Member

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    Revolvers are more dependable. They don't care what you load in them they are going to go bang.