Are Florida cops really THAT bad?!?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by janikphoto, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. janikphoto

    janikphoto New Member

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    I was watching some old Dateline NBC Chris Hansen "To Catch a Predator" re-runs on MSNBC and got a chance to see several different city and state police departments in action. Most of the departments across the country were as you'd expect... Authoritative and swift, but not excessively aggressive or physical with the suspects.

    I was surprised by two things:

    First, The Riverside, CA department was overly nice, quiet, civil and polite to the suspects. Common sense would've had you believe they were being too quiet and polite, possibly allowing the suspects to feel like they could get the upperhand. However, their arrests appeared to be the smoothest and easiest of all the episodes. They didn't have to throw anyone to the ground. They quietly told everyone to turn around, and they were able to handcuff everyone without resistance.

    Second, A Florida city (I forget the exact city) was nearly brutal with everyone. The FL dept. threw everyone to the ground and put knees in their backs or on their necks. They had multiple officers screaming multiple commands at once. One officer tore a suspects cellphone from his hand and threw it far away across the driveway. Several suspects had cuts and scrapes. What I assumed would've been an effective way of subduing a suspect suddenly appeared to be a horribly chaotic and messy arrest.

    Now, let's not confuse this topic of police procedures with the horrible actions of the predators/suspects on the show. I personally think they deserved to be arrested, convicted and thrownin prison. I was shocked during the follow-up info to see than so many of them only received 90 or 180 days in jail for their actions. Preying on children, they deserved so much more. However, this thread wasn't created to discuss them or their actions. I am trying to find out what makes certain police procedures OK in one city and not in the next.

    The show mentioned that "because of the ability to easily obtain a Concealed Carry permit in Florida, the police had to act that way." Not a direct quote, but a summary of their excuse... Really? Do the FL police throw every speeder and red light runner to the ground because they might also have a legal CC firearm on them? For half a second, I thought to myself, "Oh, that makes sense... wait a minute?!? That is total BS!" Police don't automatically get to brutalize the public because they are in a CC state?!?!? It's not the CC citizens they have to worry about, it's the illegal firearms they should fear!

    Oh, and the other funny thing about these two depts? Riverside had a 100% conviction rate of the men shown and the Florida dept had to drop the charges on two of the men?!? Surely a coincidence, not related to the way they handle their arrests, but still... I was shocked that the least aggressive dept came out looking like the winners. So, ultimately I ask, "Are Florida Cops really THAT bad? t what point do you NOT treat the public in such a physical manner?"
     
  2. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm not a LEO but I'd expect the level of professionalism varies with every department. Not just in Florida, but everywhere. One city in CA is not indicative of the entire state, nor is one city in FL. But the conviction rate you refer to may have a great deal to do with procedure. It makes perfect sense to me that the sloppier the procedure, the fewer convictions.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    ive seen those episodes and if im not mistaken it was msnbc voice over that said that ccw was the reason for the rough treatment. the police did not actually say it. msnbc is also violently anti-gun anti-constitution and hates america in general.

    im not sure if COPS is still airing but you will see similar actions by police around the country. some cops will behave that way some wont.

    i like to call that attitude the batman complex. i was in the military police for 5 years and i dont remember ever raising my voice to anyone to get em to do what i wanted. even the guy i arrested for beating his kid so severely he nearly died. an authoratative presence is far more effective than screaming and yelling like a fool. from beligerent drunks to violent thugs that found their way into the military bars i resorted to physical violence maybe 2 times to tackle running peeps. i never felt the need to abuse the power i was given and act like a tin god.

    lots of people ascribe worship to police. i dont. they are no different than anyone else you meet day to day. they got a ****ty job but they signed up for it. no one twisted their arms to do it. like anyone else from fry cook to president you gotta earn respect before you can expect it. the uniform gun and badge give them means to enforce authority but they do not mean automatic reverence.

    i do not hate cops i just understand that police are human beings. good bad and ugly. some depts will promote violence by cops others wont. that is purely a reflection of leadership. lapd is a prime example. for years the top brass covered up cop violence as a way of life until hand held cameras started making in-roads on institutional police abuse that was purely driven by the leadership allowing it to happen and covering up for the bad cops. it did not make all cops in the lapd evil but it does represent what can happen and does illustrate the fact cops are just people.

    just remember that msnbc has an overall agenda to overthrow the constitution no different than the democratic party.
     
  4. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    With regard to the charges sticking to the perps in "to catch a predator." I read somewhere a while back, the methods employed by the production of the show in some cases actually complicated the prosecution of the suspects. I don't remember specifics, but essentially the drama of the show took precedence over due process. So, in at least a few cases, the lack of conviction may not be the fault of the LEOs present.
    Maybe that's why the LEOs are hostile, they are being used as props in a docu-drama and know that many of the cases will be thrown out later. I know I'd be a bit hostile.
     
  5. culdee

    culdee New Member

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    cop on the block

    There is a disturbing growth of anti-police violence in America. In part I believe this is due to the perception that police are becoming more brutal, less compassionate, less tolerant. Is that perception correct? I don't know but I do know that the police today are a far cry from the ones I knew growing up. They are more aggessive, abusive, and seem to be all to quick to pull weapons and get extreme. Maybe they watch too much TV. I understand the nature of their job is dealing with the criminal element. They need to remember that we are not all criminals and in fact none of us are until a jury and judge say so. It bothers me to see this growing wedge betwen the protectors of scoiety and society itself. People I have known all my life are becoming more and more anti-LEO through bad encounters with out- of-control police. Perhaps, in some cases, the violence against cops is simply a scared reaction of a less trusting public. I want to make the point that I do not approve of any violence toward police and I sincerely hope the trend will reverse itself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
  6. havasu

    havasu Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'll refrain from leaving any comments. Merry Christmas everyone!
     
  7. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I really have to disagree with you here. Cops were a lot more brutal 30-40 years ago. And well before that. Miami-Dade, Chicago, LA, Alabama, Mississippi, New Orleans...you have no idea. Those were some mean dudes. And there weren't any video cameras or cellphones or dashcams back then.
     
  8. ironsights

    ironsights New Member

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    It has to be due largely to Video, think Rodney King, the Helio flying over head and shooting the video of the beating. Every phone has a camera, and maybe this is good to keep things on the up and up, but I think we lose the LEO making a decision to let the 1st time offender go for a minor thing, now we are video-taped doing something stupid and we watch it on You tube and the whole world know how stupid we were for 10 seconds.

    I believe it certainly must change the LEO view of cutting some lead way.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    police violence is hugely reduced compaired to 40 years ago. when it does happen today it gets caught on tape an broadcast worldwide giving a perception of increased violence by cops when in actuality its at a all time low.
     
  10. fixxer

    fixxer New Member

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    I agree. I think a lot of these so called violence increases can be attributed to media. In some cases though, I believe that the media is responsible in creating awareness of of the situation. When we don't know it exists before and suddenly see it happening, we tend to incorrectly attribute this to a "growing" trend.
     
  11. janikphoto

    janikphoto New Member

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    Oh, I understand that, and I tried my best to state that it was specific cities I was commenting on - not entire states. I know the subject title of the thread sounds otherwise, but that was more just to give you an idea of the content inside... I never thought that one group of one city's police dept represented the whole state. I apologize if the inflammatory title leads you to infer otherwise.



    Yes, it is the MSNBC voiceover, not the police chief voiceover that states a CCW is making them act more aggressively. I figured it didn't really matter who was trying to claim a CCW is reason enough to throw around suspects... the important fact is that the act is being done. I guess the one silver lining is that they are roughing up pedophiles. Not that the police should use any more force than is absolutely necessary to subdue a suspect, just that my personal choice would for the pedos and murderers to get the short end of the stick, so to speak.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    dont doubt for a second that the media has an agenda.
     
  13. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    I do my best to believe that every LEO is geniuninely in it to help society. For the most part every cop I have met has been extremely polite and nice, although I generally meet police on good terms not because I am suspected of something. But even the 2 times i have had a traffic infaction only 1 of them was mean. He was a young guy and i truly believe he was a police officer for the "power". The other was a state trooper and he pulled me and another guy over at the same time. He talked to the other guy first and they got in a screaming match and I thought "oh my god im screwed now". When he walked back to my car he was exceedingly nice and even knocked 5mph off the ticket for me so it wouldnt be reckless driving.

    However, despite my efforts to believe they are all good people until proven otherwise. I generally have a dim view on police, it is not because of the media or utube or anything like that. I grew up in a town that had such a brutal police force that the states government actually came in and shut them down. If you got arrested you where pretty much garunteed a beating, they also were infamous for running people off the road. Several motorcyclists died to the police hands. Now the town is police by the 2 neighboring towns police force and it is the same as anywhere else around here.

    Growing up with the police being seen in such a light had a dramatic impact on my view of them as a whole and although I do my best to not let it affect my opinion, every now and then i notice I am extra quick to accuse of "excessive force".

    ...and my friend getting beaten so hard his leg was broken when i was in highschool didnt help. But those cops got what they deserved. His mother was in TBI (Tennessee bereua of investigation) and he called her when he was being pulled over and left the phone running in the seat. She heard the cries of her teenage son as he was beaten by two police officers. You can imagine that didnt turn out well for those two pigs... thats what they where too. Reason for being pulled over? Not using his turn signal. Apparently what got him the beating was referring to his rights.
     
  14. SecPro

    SecPro New Member

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    The number of scumbags in FL are ridiculous!! The "aggression" you claim to see is just a well implemented force option when it comes to take downs.
    I'm not LEO but I've dealt with my fair share of scumbags and can tell you that these idiots only recognize force and have a ever growing hatred for all those in uniform...
     
  15. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Very true. Florida's a gravity-sucker for every conman, sex offender, deadbeat, pickpocket, drug dealer and fugitive east of the Mississippi...the prey attracts the predators. Not to mention the illegal immigrants and the Mexican gangs etc. Given the circumstances in urban FL and elsewhere in the US, I think cops have a pretty good record overall for restraint.
     
  16. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Really You can be too aggressive with a kid touching pervert? They are lucky I was not on the team most of them would not come out of it alive.

    If you have been on this board more than 15 minutes you know that I have a zero tolerance policy for perverts. I don't understand how anyone could not just either A: beat them till they stop moving then stomp on their skull till it pops or B: put a hole in their head the size of a dam softball. Either way suites me just fine.

    I personally love to see a dam pervert getting the crap kicked out of him.
     
  17. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    Quoted for truth.
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    you sir are required by the bamster himself to be more tolerant of alternate lifestyles congress has made it clear.

    wont be long until congress declares this behaviour to be legal :/ i dont personally put it past em.
     
  19. janikphoto

    janikphoto New Member

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    Oh, I would personally love to watch them get beaten. I can't stand the idea of these perverts roaming around. However, this actually makes one of the best examples of how the police officer is supposed to be a step above the normal civilian. He/she shouldn't let their personal feelings get in the way of their job. It doesn't matter who they are arresting, they should only use enough force to detain the suspect while keeping everyone safe. They should not act upon the same feelings that we would want to as individuals.

    Imagine if you were wearing a Cowboys jersey and the officer was pissed at the Cowboys for beating his team. He could easily push you around a bit and use excessive force, just because he didn't like you for your shirt. People get mad at the littlest stuff, but the police SHOULD know how to control it. They should be trying to detain a person with the least amount of aggression possible, while keeping safety in mind (in other words, they may NEED to use force on someone who is an immediate threat to the people around him/her).
     
  20. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    How in the wide wide world of sports can you compare a guy wearing a shirt to a guy that likes to molest little kids? There is a big difference there.

    1. Guy wearing a shirt is not hurting anyone.
    2. Guy wearing a tshirt didn't break the law.
    3. Guy wearing a tshirt is not a dam kid toucher.

    So try to find something else to come up with.