ar15 gas system

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by stuntman19832000, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. stuntman19832000

    stuntman19832000 New Member

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    First of all I search for this question and didn't find it, so don't get pissed if it's already here lol. which is better gas piston or direct impingement on an ar15?
     
  2. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    LOL, this is an ongoing debate and really boils down to neither being superior, both have distinct advantages. Generally, a DI rifle will be a little to a lot lighter then the same rifle with a piston system. A piston rifle runs a lot cleaner and uses less lube, but also adds a mechanical failure point that a DI rifle doesn't have to worry about. A DI rifle can clog up with smoot. A piston rifle will not.

    I prefer a DI rifle for the weight and the fact that I clean religiously anyway. Also, I can work on a DI system because of it's simplicity, while piston systems are not standardized and one manufacturers piston may differ from the next's, but both manufacturers use the exact same length and shape gas tube for their DI carbines.
     

  3. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Mosh is dead on as usual and the reasons he listed are why I also went with a DI system. And I don't mind cleaning a firearm after a day at the range either, that's just what you do. Most of what you hear about piston ARs is hype and we're bombarded with it in magazines and gun forums. Sure there are some advantages but it gets old repeatedly hearing you must upgrade to have a reliable AR.

    Of course choose the one you want but remember that there are lots of competing piston designs being tried out on ARs at present. Ten years from now many will have failed and thus be orphans. Proprietary parts will only be available from the manufacturer and in time parts for the designs that failed will dry up. This won't happen with a DI rifle for the foreseeable future, parts are available from dozens of sources and are normally interchangeable between all major brands.
     
  4. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    Here is a dissenting opinion (based in fact and on experience). The conditions that most civilian AR style DI rifles (in a lot of the terrain/environment in the U.S.) are exposed to do NOT require excessive cleaning to keep functioning. Unless you expose the chamber/ BCG directly to a lot of loose dirt or sand driven into it all one has to do is keep it wet with good quality lube (Slip 2000, Mobil 1, whatever). A good quality AR can go thousands of rounds without cleaning. It will not run without lubrication.
    Everyone is all about the piston guns because there has been a campaign (started with the HK 416) to get us to think all our "old" gas guns are horrible and require cleaning between each magazine change. B.S. Yes a piston gun keeps the BCG cool and clean, but it simply moves the heat and carbon elsewhere. The same heat and carbon have to go somewhere, guess where? Not out the barrel I assure you.
    Nothing is perfect, gotta weigh the choices (as you have done).
     
  5. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    And this ^^^ Spot on IMO.
     
  6. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    I'm honestly not sure you've dissented with anybody here, unless your referring to dissenting against opinions in previous or other threads. So far, both Quentin and I pretty much agreed with what you said except you went more into how a DI system can survive the mess just fine, providing some nice extra detail.

    But I'm at a loss how your dissenting against anything Quentin or I said? We both prefer DI systems. And for the record, hillbilly, while you may have more experience with CIVILIAN ARs, I promise you don't have more time or experience on the M16 then I do, unless you started BEFORE 1984. Consistently shot 39 for 40 with only fast freddie EVER escaping me. Damn that Fast Freddie!
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2010
  7. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    Engage your brain before you engage your mouth next time. While I agree with you that I do have more experience with civilian ARs than you, I would argue that I have just a little more with the M16/M4 series since that is what I do for a living...still today. I have more time behind the gun than you could dream of, around the world and bacck again. Comments like yours are one of the reasons Im getting tired of being on forums altogether. Sit back and you might learn something.

     
  8. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    The fact that you make such broad assumptions is what's making comments like "engage your brain" look pretty hypocritical. Pot meet kettle? If you didn't get your start before the mid-80's with M16's, then no, you're full of it. Carbon and crap. Cleaning religiously is what the service taught me to do and I see no need based on the word of a hillbilly to change that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2010
  9. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    I did enlist in the Army under Reagan in the mid 80s, again you speak from a position of ignorance. I would guess you pulled a short hitch and got (thrown?) out. Are you still in the service? If so, I retract my statement. But I know you are not. My peers (which you would never have been anyway) would speak differently. Yeah I grew up in the "clean it until it squeaks" Army, but we (we that are current warfighters anyway) have figured out by experience that it is not required (again, not required in some environments). Especially in the aforementioned (that means what I talked about before) relatively clean environments. So take your "back in the day I shot blah blah" and leave it there....in the past. Your brief brush with glory on the pop-up flat range when you were an 88M is long over. I would venture a guess you were one of the guys I chaptered out of the Army when I was a company commander years ago. But probably not since I have never been in pogue units. Go read your Soldier of Fortune and clean your KelTech. But most of all just go.
     
  10. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    You spout disrespect and therefore are worthy of the same. I served honorably for 8 years, and trained a dozen more since to go in. And shove your lowely Kel-Tech suggestion where the sun don't shine. I served same time you did, it took injury in the line of duty to get me out, so shove that alongside the Kel-tech AND your head.

    Far be it for me to step over your priority to make ignorant assumptions. Chapter this *exposed butthole*

    You would give your left nut to have half my DD214, or as clean a rifle as I have, clean the carbon out of your ears :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2010
  11. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    No thanks chapter case, you can keep your Driver's Badge and Army Service Ribbon.
     
  12. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    What is it they say about ignorance? Are you in bliss? Or just another LEG pogue talking big because he can't hump or jump (I did lots o both :D )?

    Edit: I just thought of something. You said you're still serving (or recently out, I didn't catch which), and have been since the mid-80's? That would make you what, an E-8 by now? And this is becoming behavior for a top NCO? Nice! I'll reup for your ate-up unit, sarge! Dirty rifles for everybody! w00t!!! I guess I got out with few enough NCO stripes to not be as crotchety and stuck up my 4-points as you? So was it the second rocker pushed ya over the edge, or did ya make it to the 3rd before your head self-inserted? :p

    Edit #2: I suspect neither one of us will allow the other to have the last word on this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  13. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    Guess again.

    You are cracking me up.

    I bet you hid out at CASCOM the whole time. The only people that call others "legs" are typically the ones that crowded the ramp on the last weekend of the quarter to keep from losing J Pay.
     
  14. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    I notice that wasn't a denial. So not a leg then. That was only part of what I said. The second word was "pogue", as in no hump. So you would know all about the quarterly rush then? I didn't have to sweat that, I never had a quarter pass with less then 2 jumps on FTX at minimum. You? Oh yeah! Quarterly rush!

    Edit: When we're done waggling our weenies at each other, the topic is drifting a bit here. Rub on a little vagisil and lets get back on topic here...
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  15. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    While this is funny as hell, I assume you are both grown ups...How about give a rest?

    And thank you both for your service.
     
  16. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    Yessir! :D

    (spoil sport, I was having a blast :p )
     
  17. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

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    OK it is all yours, last word below...


     
  18. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    I don't want the last word now. You've completely spoiled it :p
     
  19. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Hey I'll take the last word then! (Unless the OP wants another crack at it.) Uncle Sam sent me to Vietnam in 1968, took away my M14 and handed me an M16 which I have to say served me well. Yeah I'm an old fart now. :D

    Then I got out in '69 and hardly ever handled an AR style rifle till last summer when I decided to put one together. Don't know why I waited so long but the really annoying and confusing thing at the time was all the magazines and many in forums said you're an idiot if you don't go with a gas piston. Very glad I didn't drink the kool-aid and am pleased with my new/old friend. If someone else wants a piston AR, fine - but in most applications there's little to gain.

    Anyway, Mosh and Hillbilly68 we're all on the same side and are vets so let's stick together! I bet we'd get along pretty good over a night of beer and pizza and swapping war stories. Oh and I'm an old hillbilly from NC so watch what you say about us, Mosh! :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  20. moshpit

    moshpit New Member

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    LOL, no sweat, Quentin! Texans love a good verbal sparring match as much as the next guy. I think Hillbilly was enjoying himself as much as I was :p