AR10 choices

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by DP03, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. DP03

    DP03 New Member

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    Handled a few in my LGS that I liked today. S&W M&P10, Sig Sauer, DPMS, and a Scar 17S. Of course the Scar was the most expensive.

    A couple of questions. This will be primarily a target gun. No hunting.

    Is the Scar worth the price it commands ($2,500).
    Is the S&W a good choice for about $1,400?
    The Sig is a piston vs DI (and more expensive). Any real world benefit to the piston platform?

    Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  2. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    HK makes the best AR10 out there in my opinion. The MR308.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I went scar17. Its worth it but the initial cost is just the begining. To get the most out of it with the least effort your going to need mags a trigger group and a rail extension as the reciever I think is too short to get a good proper grip. Its definately too short for hunting.

    Then your going to need an optic but that's true of any of em.

    I can wring half moa out of my scar17 before I did anything to it. Straight out of the box. Everything I've done to it makes sub moa a routine thing instead of having to work at it.

    Mine shoots well with 150-175 grain loads.

    Beats the pants off any other semi 308 out there no doubt.
     
  4. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I have the DPMS , its a terrific shooter and very accurate . My buddy bought a S&W in .308 , he sold it to buy a DPMS because the S&W was not as accurate as he was . " the guy is a bolt gun precision shooter" . Best he could get was 1.1" groups with any hand load he produced . The man shoots 5 shot groups that you could cover with a dime out of the DPMS with hand loads .
    The SCAR needs a better trigger , its not real great out of the box but it is a very accurate gun .
    I dont know jack about the SIG . 308 as I have not handled one or shot one .
     
  5. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    I also have a DPMS LR series. It's not top shelf,but it shoots damn good,easy to clean & maintain,and has a very big aftermarket compared to all the others. Mine is in 260 Remington,but I can change to any other caliber with just an upper swap.
    I use it for hunting more than target shooting,but it loves 140 gr Sierra Gamekings,and easily shoots sub-moa groups when I do my part.

    I like the SCAR 17,but I can buy another complete DPMS in another caliber,and still have cash left over from the price difference!
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    If all your doing is popping paper pretty much any decent 308 will do.

    The benefit of the scar17 is it weighs about as much as most ar15 carbines, recoil is half that of any other 308 semi, balance is superb better than any other 308 semi and most ar15, monolithic upper, retains accuracy shot after shot. The bolt carrier is one solid mass the piston works on sort of like an ak47 carrier but without all the torque an ak gas system puts on the thin oprod. The massive carrier has a lot of momentum so feed issue are pretty much non existant.

    Oh, it also folds into a pretty compact configuration.
     
  7. Nice rifle - but, you'll have to quantify "beats the pants off." Doesn't it really depend upon your usage of the rifle?

    I use my .308 for precision tactical rifle competition. I'll wager my Les Baer .308 Sniper with the Enforcer muzzle brake is every bit as accurate at 800-1,000 yard shots with less recoil than the SCAR 17.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Weighs a lot I bet.

    What I'm getting at is it does it without being overly huge and weighty. I can use it to drive tacks or as a cqb rifle or a hog hunter or a deer rifle or precision rifle, I run it supressed or unsupressed.

    That's what I mean
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  9. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    This has been driving me crazy lately. I'd almost decided on a SCAR 17S, but some things scare me like all the plastic and all the extra stuff you have to buy to make it "right": PMAG lower, Super SCAR trigger, and extended rail.

    I held a Sig 716 at the LGS today and was very impressed. I'm just suspicious of the price tag. Seems too good to be true.
     
  10. DP03

    DP03 New Member

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    Mind sharing the price on the Sig? The 716 may be in my safe as early as tomorrow. Deciding between that and the S&W. And they have a Scar if they can get me really drunk.
     
  11. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    The DPMS even though affordable and not gold plated when it comes to materials has universally great reviews.:)

    The SIG716 is bristling with high end features and specs (Piston gas, CHF barrel) and is IMHO a true 21st AR10 albeit at a price thats approx 40-50% greater than the DPMS.

    Those 2 seem to be the most attractive choices in my mind among those you listed.
     
  12. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    They had $1899 listed. Keep in mind that is list. It wasn't my main LGS, so I couldn't ask what the lowest was they would take(I'm not a regular there). I only buy from my main LGS so I didn't want to waste their time.

    All in all the rifle looked great. No need to buy the extended rail and PMAG lower like I would on the 17S. Trigger actually felt pretty good too. Single stage with just a little grittiness. What I couldn't get a solid answer on though was whether the barrel was .308WIN rated. It said 7.62x51 on it under the hand guard. It wasn't too heavy either, it felt around a pound heavier than the 17S(which I held right before it).

    I'm still doing research, but the 716 is about $1000 less than the REPR, MWS, and SCAR. That $1000 saved is about halfway to a suitable piece of glass.

    My main concern now is this. Does the 17S/MWS/REPR really do THAT much more than the 716 to justify the price? I'm ok spending big bucks for the best, but only if it's worth it. Also, the manual of arms on the 17S would take retraining to the Nth degree for me. I don't have that much ammo or time unless it's really far and away the very best option.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I have a pmag lower can't recomend one as of right now.

    The trigger and extension don't make it right they make it better.

    The oem plastic lower runs about 45$ but I've never heard of one breaking. I upgraded to the vltor stock which isn't really neccessary.
     
  14. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    JonM, how do you feel about the 716? I really value your input, thanks.
     
  15. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    That particular model I'm not familiar with but I've been less than impressed with their other rifle offerings.

    Their 556 offerings are heavy and poorly balanced. Not a lot of aftermarket support.

    I haven't held or seen a 716 in person. I'm not a fan of sig rifles.their handguns are generally pretty good

    If I didn't have a scar17 I would definately own a colt 901 by now.

    One of the negatives I see from its stats is the 1-10 twist which is likely to have less than stellar performance from 147-160 grain loads. Your limited to 175 grain max bullets due to the design of the mags. 1-10 works best with 168-210. Semi 308 I would rather have 1-12 which runs 147-175 bullets.

    I'm also not a fan of most piston designs which can be problematic depending on how the oprod is designed. Most have a piston which hits a rod that runs the length on the barrel then hits the carrier. That rod is what can cause function issues in some design patterns.

    If you look at battle proven piston designs like the m1 garand m1 carbine m1a ak47 the gas works directly on the oprod which is connected directly to the carrier in the case of the ak47 or di driven ar10 or the short stroke piston hits the oprod which is part of the carrier as in the above mentioned and the scar17.

    I'm not convinced a three part gas system is a good thing under all conditions. Range plinking hunting light usage its a non issue.

    I've got 1500 through my scar17 atm I haven't cleaned the carrier or reciever just swabbed the bore out a couple times. I'm not big on over cleaning. I tend to lube em up shoot em put em away. If they get wet or grimy I will do a cleaning.

    If the scar17 hadn't been adopted by the military I prolly wouldn't have risked money on it and would have gotten a cz550 ucs or colt 901

    When I was looking for dmr I was trying to get close to the svd concept. First part was finding a suitable semiauto in a bigger caliber. Next was a ranging optic which I changed my view of ranging bdc later on. A few candidates were the 901, rra ar10, larue obr, scar17. After being weasled by larue on their craptastic mounts I ruled them out, rra I couldn't get one light weight with a barrel I liked, leaving the 901 and scar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    On a odd note there is enough room on the side of the scar17 to write down drop tables for various loads for dialing in the optics... kinda neat. All I gotta do is tilt the rifle to read the chart. My memmory sucks when it comes to numbers.

    [​IMG]

    Haven't filled it out yet weather been too pisspoor to do much shooting. I got some thinner paint pens I'm going to redo it and list three loads alternating yellow white.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  17. DP03

    DP03 New Member

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    I can have the Scar tomorrow for $2,500 at the LGS. Still trying to justify what makes that gun worth so much........
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    No one can do it but you :)

    I'm just relaying my experiences with it. I'm not invested in you or anyone else buying one over any other rifle. I wouldn't trade mine off for any four other 308's
     
  19. DP03

    DP03 New Member

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    Would that be any OF four 308's or any four 308's (meaning you wouldn't take 4 less expensive guns for your one SCAR)? If the latter, that's a pretty strong statement.
     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i was mainly reading along to gain some info about different 308 semi-auto rifles. at some point i would like to have another semi-auto 308 rifle.

    i like that you are simply sharing your expersiances and opinions about the SCAR 17. you are happy with the SCAR and therefor the price is justified. nothing wrong with that. for another person, that price may be too steep to justify for that particular rifle. it comes down to personal preference and what we value.

    thanks for sharing your experiances with the SCAR Jon. not for sure i could justify personally that steep a price for the SCAR for myself, but still enjoyed learning about it.