AR Reliability

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by 1984cj, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. 1984cj

    1984cj New Member

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    I have my first AR(got it used in a trade) and just returned from the range.
    My first impression is one of disappointment. My AR will not feed itself.
    I get one round and a click. Then I have to manually work the charging handle.
    I get one round and a click. And here we go again.
    It was clean and it had a light coating of oil on the bolt carrier and mechanism. There is no dirt in the chamber/ bolt area.
    I am shooting factory Remington 55grn FMJ.
    I tried a 20rnd Brownell's Mag(Brand new)
    I tried a 30rnd Stoner Mag that I received with the rifle.
    No change.
    Any suggestions to making this thing fire semi- auto rather than single shot?

    Also, how do I lighten the trigger pull?
     
  2. Bidah

    Bidah New Member

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    Ok, CJ, just a little bit more information.

    Does the fired round eject?
    Is it just not stripping the next round?

    Some things to check for the above issues. Loose gas rings, loose carrier key.

    Give us some more and let us see if we can't figure it out.

    -Bidah
     

  3. 1984cj

    1984cj New Member

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    Any info I can provide I will.
    Insert Loaded mag
    operate charging handle
    Sight down range squeeze trigger BANG
    Empty ejects like I expect it to and lands ~4 feet to the right just about inline with the ejection port.
    Fails to strip next round.
    Operate charging handle. Repeat same exact process.

    Almost like the bolt carrier is not moving far enough back to catch the next round.
    I will field strip it this evening and clean it again. what are the grease points on the bolt carrier/bolt and how oiled should it be?
    Gun seemed to operate normaly it just wasn't loading the next round from the magazine. Accuracy was good. Bang was good. ejection seemed to be good.
    Spent brass looked OK.
     
  4. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Sounds like your gas rings may be bad.
     
  5. Bidah

    Bidah New Member

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    I would expect ejection to go 6 foot to the front, not to the side. As the ejection spring gets weaker, it will throw it more to the side. For my initial guess, I would bet either gas rings, or very likely a loose carrier key. Make sure that is tight, as in zero movement. Those are the two most common things.

    Other things that could be wrong are the gas tube itself being out of alignment.

    Do you know what brand it is? More specifically the upper?

    I know it helps me to swap parts around with my other ones. I finally tracked down a loose carrier key, that I would swear wasn't loose, but it sure was. Tightened it back down and staked it again, no problem. It also did exactly what you are describing, except every 3rd or 4th round, at the beginning.

    -Bidah
     
  6. Catfish

    Catfish Member

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    It could also have to much grease in it. When I got mine it had been over greased and I had the same problem. Mine ejects to the side and back also, but brass land alot more than 4 ft. from the gun.
     
  7. Bidah

    Bidah New Member

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    Sorry CJ, I forgot about the grease/lube question.

    The only thing that should be greased is the buffer and spring. The rest can be oiled. For the carrier, there are 2 points on each side of the key, and there are 2 points around the side. You will see where it is wearing. Then lube up the bolt, especially the rings. Keep the bolt lubed up to keep it running.

    When new, I run them pretty wet. Once it is broken in, less so on the carrier, but make sure to keep that bolt lubed.

    -Bidah
     
  8. Dgunsmith

    Dgunsmith New Member

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    What stock is on the AR ?

    Which buffer & spring are in the stock ?

    Its getting gas to extract and eject, just not enough reward carrier travel to strip off the next round.

    Often people put on a CAR stock and use the `rifle length buffer spring...and your situation results.

    If a parts gun, the gas hole under the gas block (front sight) may be too small
    to provide enough gas.

    I would also check the gas rings on the bolt and the gas key screws on the carrier.
     
  9. 1984cj

    1984cj New Member

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    OK guys thanks for the check list.
    I field stripped it tonight and found nothing obviously wrong.
    Bolt and carrier look like they have not had much use. The bolt slides snugly into the carrier and doesn't flop around after it is installed. The carrier key is tight and the staking on the screws is deep and has not moved.
    The stock is a collapsible one. I greased the buffer and spring. It looks like it has a carbine buffer(short) and a rifle spring. This should be ok as it is a 24" barrel.
    After dissassembly, I think that the rifle may have been insufficiently lubricated. I have fixed that problem :) I am going to take it to the range next tuesday and try it again. Wish me luck!
     
  10. rickrem700

    rickrem700 New Member

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    Ar 15

    1984cj; I know I am about to tick off a bunch of people hear, but I am just going to tell it like it is, Take that thing back and get your money back, I have been through a few of these, even differant brands and have never had any good luck with them, I'd get one thing fixed then another would happen, it was never ending, They are a money pit everything you save on the cheap ammo you stick back in the gun to keep it going, then there all the aftermarket parts that gets addictive before you know it your rifle looks like somthing from outerspace and weighs 22 pounds, been there done that, Paid dearly for it, If you talk to anybody that has been in battle with one, they all answer the same they are jamomatics, save your self alot of grief and get a fn/fal or an AK , Hell I'd take an SKS over one of those things.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2007
  11. Bidah

    Bidah New Member

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    CJ,

    If you have a rifle spring, and not a carbine one, in a collapsible stock, then that is a serious problem. There is not enough room for a rifle spring to compress. Make sure that is a carbine spring please. The length of your barrel doesn't matter.

    -Bidah
     
  12. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    +1 on the buffer spring. Could be a rifle rather than carbine spring. Could also be a bad/dirty gas tube. Take off the handguards and look at the gas tube where it leaves the gas block/front sight base. If you see a carbon build up in that area the tube may have to be replaced. You can clean the inside by dribbling good solvent (Shooters Choice) into the tube from the back end. I use a pipette. Let it soak for a few mikes and run a gas tube pipe cleaner down it.

    NEVER lube the gas rings with oil/grease! They will gum up like crazy.

    You can test the gas rings by stripping the bolt carrier group, take out the FP and cam pin. Hold the locking lugs and let the bolt carrier dangle straight down. If the carrier falls off the bolt, replace the gas rings. Otherwise you are AOK.
     
  13. RMTactical

    RMTactical New Member

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    What brand AR is it?

    Mine ALL work very well. Good quality AR's make for very functional AR's.
     
  14. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    When you looked at the gas rings, were the gaps in the rings staggered around the bolt? Might consider spending $4 for a McFarland gas ring. It will eliminate the rings as a problem source, or fix it. All of my AR's have McFarland rings.
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    AR

    Gas ring gaps lined up? URBAN MYTH! That does not do a darn thing. I know, I know, some DI told you that in 1977. There is no reality to that statement. The Mcfarland one piece gas ring is a solution to a non problem.

    I went to a Colt Armorers school and that topic was discussed. The instructor had a cut away bolt carrier that exposed a bit of the gas rings. He took a pocket knife and carefully rotated the rings until the gaps all lined up. He passed it around so we could see it. He then moved the bolt in and out of the carrier quickly several times simulating firing or "racking" the action. He did not even look at it, he passed it around and we all could see the gas rings staggered themselves.

    The ends/gaps are slightly bevel cut just like a good piston ring in a car engine. Even if they are lined up, there is no gap when installed into the carrier.

    I have heard people even go so far as to claim the gaps will throw a round off in the direction of the gap. The gap is at 9 oclock and a round impacts to the left. WHAT? How in the he!! is the gap going to throw a bullet off?
    By the time the rings get into the equation, the bullet is half way to the target.
     
  16. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    GASP..... you mean the REAL COLT ARMORERS SCHOOL? My God, if I send you a piece of paper, will you autograph it for me? :rolleyes:

    .....and manually cycling the bolt, really does simulate firing..... sure it does.

    My DI earned my respect, no armorers school "graduate" could hold a candle to him anyway.

    Sorry, but there is a way to disagree, and neither of these last couple of posts is it. I will defer to the experts, since I'm not one. Good luck with the cycling issue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007