AR questions

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by suzychapstick, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    I'm trying to outfit myself with a couple of these before the election. Most of my experience is with old single shot rifles. I'm thinking of getting two of them for 223, being I already have alot of that on hand. I'd like to have one for .308. I want to aquire at least the lower receivers before the election, and enough parts to build one for .223. I have enough money to swing this, the problem is I don't have an education on this yet. So I'd like to build a .223 one right away. I live in California. So my questions are:
    1. When buying a lower receiver, will they take any magazine meant for any AR15, or do you need to match brand to brand?
    2. I read rock river makes a receiver or chamber called "Wylde", what model is that? Is it the lower, or upper?
    3. I also read that you can change calibers by swapping uppers. That doesnt sound right, because it seems the width of magazines would vary and they wouldnt fit in lower?
    4. If a lower is stamped 7.62, does that mean it will shoot .308 without any problems?
    I realize these questions may sound stupid, but just try to help me and tolerate it for a while please. I need at least get the parts soon that could be stopped from ordering or become more complicated after the election.
    So any advice on this would be appreciated.
     
  2. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    1. generally brand doesnt matter. you may find some that seem to fit better than others just becuase it is mass produced. but mostly all mags are the same.

    2. the .223 wylde chamber is slightly longer than the normal .223 and is supposed to give better accuracy for varmint hunters. you need to be careful with ammuntion to make sure you have proper fit.
    3 you can change some calibers. if you change an upper you change a magazine as well. the outside shold remain about the same but the inner dimensions of the magazine are what change.
    4. no, actually its the opposite. .308 chamber can shoot 7.62. not advisable the other way around.
     

  3. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    thanks, well, if I want to shoot 308 and 223, what needs to be changed. Will the same lower work for both?
     
  4. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

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    Go to your local LGS and let them know what your plans are for an immediate build and have them help you order all the parts, PLUS any EXTRA parts like BCG/firing pins/trigger group/springs kit/and other necessary "wear items" in case of breakage or what-not. You'll also NEED to get all lower receivers with the designated Cali bullet button, and I believe ONLY 10-round magazines. Any AR-15 part will exchange with another AR-15 part IF--it's within Mil Spec and same likeness. There are some differences with gas blocks/sights/gas tube lengths and different hand guard attachments, so readup on the differences and you'll be OK. Definitly read up on differences between "Direct Impingement" and "Piston Driven" Upper Receivers and their parts as you don't want to get these parts mixed up. I would suggest going with the "Direct Impingement" as this is what the AR is really all about. Also get it in 5.56 caliber OR multi caliber to shoot 5.56 AND 223 ammo. DO NOT get in just 223 caliber as you won't be able to shoot 5.56 ammo in it. Well you can shoot a couple rounds(by accident), but DON'T, as the 5.56 ammo is hotter load, designed for Military usage,but can be gotten at a lot of stores or online. Later, if you want to get a 22LR conversion kit, you can if you want, and be able to use the AR's lower receiver as normal to practice. As to the "Wylde" chamber. I believe that's a chamber design that's between 5.56/223 to prevent case ejection problems of 223 ammo with hot reloads(case swelling) and such.
    On 7.62 caliber's, yes it is the size of the 308, BUT don't forget they make a 7.62x39caliber for the AR, and this is what they're talking about. The American 308 is just that, but is called an AR-10, and the upper/lower receivers/barrels/most parts, ARE NOT interchangeable with the AR-15 due to size differences. They make MANY calibers for the AR-15 and a few for the AR-10 and you would need help from your LGS to get the ball rolling.
    You also need to keep all parts separate, so some good "tool/fishing" boxes are needed to keep all the extras in. This is what I use to keep my AR-15 parts/Armours Tools/Cleaning supplies separate from all my other gun equipment for easier selection of some speciality components that you'll find you will need. As to the upcoming Election banning even more "so-called" Assault weapons---who knows. I know I didn't vote for the Man on last election, and I'm sure as Hell NOT gonna vote for him this election. OR do what thousands before you have done---go find what you like already built and enjoy it, while learning about an AR, and collecting parts to build something that you know will give you that "warm/fuzzy feeling".
    Del
     
  5. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    Wow, thats a pretty nice answer. Thanks Triumphman. I read entire article by AgentTikki today. So I'm trying to get a crash course edcation on this. Your pretty right on about our laws here on them. I'm trying to avoid the LGS for some of it though. I'm going to check my notes, and post what I'm trying to do about a lower. Also, I'm glad what you mentioned about a straight .223 model.
     
  6. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    negative, the AR15 and AR10 are two different rifles based on a similar design. Between the 2 platforms you can shoot a range of about 30 different calibers, from .22LR to .50BMG.

    I would recommend talking with your LGS to find out what laws pertain to you for acquiring one lower each for an AR15 and an AR10
     
  7. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    1) Magazines are standard, any good quality magazine will work for a standard 5.56/.223 AR15.

    2) Wylde is a type of match grade chamber. It will handle both .223 remington and 5.56x45. It offers greater precision and consistency, while sacrificing a bit of reliability. The chamber resides in the barrel extension which in turn is affixed to the barrel and has nothing to do with the type of receiver, you have.

    3) There are two different kinds of receivers, the standard 5.56x45, which will fit the 7.62x39, .300 blackout, 6.5 grendel, and a plethora of others. Your lower can be stamped with .22lr and you can shoot a .50 beowulf out of it. It don't matter. This is the reason why most lowers nowadays are marked multi-caliber.

    Then there's the bigger receivers that are found on the ar10, dpms 308 etc that can handle 308 winchester, that can also handle 6.5 creedmore, .260 remington, .338 whisper, .338 federal etc etc. The only receiver that I can think of that can do both big and small calibers is the new Colt LE901, I does require a magazine adapter for the smaller caliber magazines tho. Its pretty new so it'll be interesting to see more info on the function and reliability of the system.

    4) Don't worry about what's stamped on the receiver, just look at the overall size of the cartridge. If its about the size of 5.56x45 then its a standard ar15 receiver. If its larger than its probably going to require a ar10 or dpms 308 receiver.

    5) In the our fine state of Kommiefornia, we MUST dros ONLY the lower receiver (the upper can be shipped directly to your house) and wait the subsequent 10 gd@$fk$#% days. If you are feeling some sort of pressure from the upcoming elections, but go out and grab a couple recievers. I'm partial to the Mega Arms MATEN for .308s, and the Riflegear lowers for 5.56. Please be sure that your new lower has a bullet button (unless you are planing on building a featureless or a dedicated rimfire caliber).

    Also please take a look at the sticky, pictures of lower receivers by Quentin. There so many pretties for you to choose from.......

    And please just start with a standard .223/5.56 or .308. Go for the other calibers later.

    Hope this helps you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The only ar out there that does both 308 and 223 is the colt le901
     
  9. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    I'm liking all the response I'm getting. Thanks to all. I like how AgentTikki mentioned that receiver has nothing to do with chamber, that chamber is attached to barrel. That was still a question in my mind. Sounds logical, common sense. But what threw me off, is on Gun Broker, there are some Rock River bare lowers. Some are California compliant. Some are labled .223 and others not labled http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=312698653 and then theres http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=312684494
    I was trying to determine what the difference between these are. My LGS told me I can buy a bare lower without a bullet button, but am required to install it myself in California. That makes me wonder what is different about the CA models and the non-CA models that "ton80" on gunbroker sells.
    I was thinking of getting at least one rock river receiver. Not that I know much about them, just heard good comments etc. I am going to post what someone else reccomended I put together. I'd appreciate anyone who looks at it and knocks it or seconds it, and why or why not. The guy who recommended this hates m4 barrels. He says there skinny near the receiver and heavy at the end, which gives you a heavy barrel with the accuracy of a light one. I don't know if hes exagerrating or what. They seem popular. As AgentTikki comented about the Wylde chamber, I need to decide if I'll sacrafice a lil reliability for extra accuracy. Meantime I'm going to look into those other two brands of lowers he is partial to. I think I'll stay away from the universal colt, I'll stick with whats proven. Hers is what I previously had on my mind. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-18 ss410 vtrx13.htm and http://www.midwayusa.com/product/33...ssembly-commercial-ar-15-223-remington-chrome and http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=286 when I realized rock river doesn't ship to CA, he suggested getting this receiver instead http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=...zz1zzM4/Product/AR-15-STRIPPED-LOWER-RECEIVER and http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=19696/Product/AR-15-NATIONAL-MATCH-2-STAGE-TRIGGER and http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24955/Product/AR-15-LOWER-RECEIVER-PARTS-KIT, again I'm all ears. I'll be back, going to look into some of these other suggestions you guys made.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  10. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Here's the thing about living in the great state of Kommiefornia, the laws are so convulted that you can buy a bare stripped lower and you do not have to put a bullet button on it if:

    1) it has a rimfire upper on it.
    2) it is "featureless". Ie no collapseable stock, no flashider, and no pistol style grips.

    A third option is to use a convertible bullet on it, such as the radlock. The radlock requires a tool (small flathead screwdriver) to change to and from a standard mag release to a bullet button.


    So a bullet button is not always required in your lower reciever.
     
  11. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    I've been calling all the LGSs, Seems Franklin Armory is thought as being good. Can anyone give me good or bad likes or dislikes about HSC 15 Franklin?? Also a Aero Precision SPR 2 for an AR10 ?? My stores arent familiar with the brand Riflegear. All I'm trying to do at this moment is buy quality bare lowers, and make one of the AR 15 into a complete gun. Thanks.
     
  12. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    You must be up north, check out Valkerie Arms, iirc out in Milipitas. They're lowers have a really nice rollmark. From what I remember, you must make an appointment before going over tho. They do not keep regular business hours.

    Never handled a Franklin Armory, but everything they make seems to be a bit on the high side for what you get for the money, and the roll mark didn't really do anything for me.

    If all you want are bare lowers, just get a standard milpsec lower receiver. Just about everyone makes a decent one. If you buy a bunch of them, you can save on your dros fees and dros them all at the same time, I've done 5 firearms on 1 dros before, it was nice!

    Don't stress out too much about the recievers, so long as they are in spec (and 99% of the time they are) they will be good to go.

    There are some options that you can consider, but will pay a premium for, like:
    flared magwells
    billet construction
    ambidextrous controls (for lefties)
    tensioner bolt (to remove play between the upper and lower)
    integrated magwells
    funky cutouts and shaped magwells (woohoo!)

    and don't forget the most important.......ROLLMARKS! (just kidding, its just cosmetic)



    If you wanna order and ship your lowers into your LGS, find one that will work with you and find out how much he/she will charge for Dros'ing it. There is no set price and LGS's can charge whatever they want. Down here in LA there are some places that will not do it. There are others that will charge $50 and even some that charge $100 for the service.

    Don't feel that you have to buy from someone's stock, if its not what you really want. There are options. Lower priced ones are Aero Precision, Palmetto State, and some others. There was one linked by another FTF member a Griffon Industies lower for $95 iirc, and they promise to donate $20 from the sale to a charity. On the higher side you have Noveske, and AXTS, or just about anything billet. There are literally hundreds to choose from. If you don't believe me check out my other thread...
    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/list-ar15-manufacturers-65666/


    I knew a guy that said he bought 10 AR15 recievers from Palmetto when they had their $50 sale a while back. He dros'd it all one one sheet, and only paid $75 for the paperwork for all 10. So you has options!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  13. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    Yes I am up north now, I miss the so. cal climate. I guessing the Riflegear must be a so. cal. thing, and that what gave it away. I did get a hold of Valkerie today, unfortunately they have no lowers at all at this time. I hear you on the beackground and fees. Unfortunately I may have to go to more than 1 LGS to get these.
    I kinda want to buy some tommorrow or the next day. It looks like this is what I have to choose from: 1. Sun Devil
    2. Stag
    3. CMMG - there was 2 left today anyway.
    4. S&W mp
    5. Franklin Armory
    6. Delton
    7. DSA
    8. Black Rain - billet 300.00
    9. Aero Precision
    Now, I know you said, as long as there milspec, there similar. But if you or someone could metion a couple of these that they preferred over the other, it would help me. These were all around 150.00 - 170.00

    I'm thinking of getting 2 or 3 for 223, and thinking of getting not more than 1 of a same brand. My thoughts have been, well get a smith mp, how can I go wrong, but I held a complete smith rifle today, it was only 700.00.
    So I think, how can something like this only cost 7 bills. It just don't sound right. I then did feel a slight wobble between the receiver and barrel, thats what you were talking about as far as a set screw between barrel and receiver.
    Now also, I found a Aero Precision receiver for 308, for 300.00.
    I did a quick research on that, correct me if I'm wrong, but ar10 isn't a widely milspecd receiver that adaptable to several brands, am I right??
    It said you had to buy Armalite or one other brand it mentioned that would adapt to it. Then Rock River has its own deal on 308 , and only RR parts will fit on it? Am I sort of right? If so what is the most univeral receiver, and what manfacturers parts will adapt to it.
    Mr Tikkis responses are greatly appreciated and he sounds like hes got a Dr. degree in this, and I hope he speaks again, but if theres anyone else who can comment on that list I have to choose from, it would help me.
     
  14. suzychapstick

    suzychapstick New Member

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    C'mon, give have some preference on the list I got to choose from. I'm just guessing when I walk in the LGS. I kinda want to take care of this today.
     
  15. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Billets are funny. While they may look nicer, but aren't necessarily better, in fact they are inherently weaker than a forged receiver.
    Go figure. But honestly the lower doesn't do much besides, guide the mag and hold the buffer tube and trigger. The biggest advantage they have is that aren't made from the same cookie cutter as a forged receiver. So they can have nice extras like flared magwells integrated trigger guards, ambidextrous controls etc etc. You will pay a premium for this tho.



    Here's what you need to do...

    Look at the roll marks. The engraving on the receivers, the writing on them. Look at the color of the receiver, there as so many shades of black, its kinda funny. Figure out what you like the best, then dros it.




    personal opinion only:

    1) Sun Devil has a good rep. I like the funky font, and the name. I though these were all billet...
    2) Stag, I personally don't care for Bambi on my lower.
    3) CMMG ok I juess.
    4) S&W Me likey. Ornate lettering looks nice!
    5) Franklin Armory kinda boring imo.
    6) Delton, eeeeh I'll pass
    7) DSA kinda boring
    8) Black rain makes nice stuff, but for that price I'd get a AXTS or Seekins Precision.
    9) Aero Precision, zzzzz but these are usually cheap....like $75ish

    do some window shopping here:
    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/pictures-lower-receivers-38440/


    There are common formats for 308 (large) receivers. DPMS and Armalite. Armalite is usually a more expensive. DPMS uses cheaper magazine. You need to make sure the parts you buy for them are for the correct format.
    I haven't personally built a 308....yet. But soon probably. I'd honestly stay away from these types your first time out. Also most parts for these types are usually alot more expensive (50% to 100%) than their ar15 counterparts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  16. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Attached Files:

  17. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    Why limit yourself? ;) Take a look at Mega Arms, great stuff. Spikes , very nice stuff, lots of folks have em'. I have a STAG and the fit/finish is great, especially since this is my battle rifle and I run it like an adopted red headed butters :D

    Personally I like the billet receivers, the high quality of the fit, finish and "extra" features offset any possible strength losses (usually the billets sets are thicker and more robust in critical areas anyhow) :)
     
  18. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Excellent information from AT as usual and I agree with his rankings of those lowers. I have a Sun Devil 80% and Quentin Defense (same company now from what I hear) and like billet lowers though I'd go along with AT on selecting standard forged instead. A little stronger for the same weight and of course cheaper. Of your list the one I highly endorse is the S&W, I have one and it's as good as any lower gets. Nicely finished and the magwell is flared as well as any. And I like a quality name like that on my lower, there's just something wrong with a quality build that ends up with a DPMS or DTI lower when you can kick in $25 or so to get S&W or something else that you'll be proud of, especialy when you show off your build to buddies at the range.

    Sure the other lowers should work fine but all eyes are on that rollmark when you hand it over to a friend. When I see a lesser rollmark I can't help but wonder what other corners were cut in that build. When I see a Noveske lower, well then I expect the rest of the build to be exciting. Doesn't mean that's true but I'd say most quality builds end up with a more interesting lower.

    ETA:
    And since you (OP) mentioned Valkyrie, I do have one of their lowers which is almost as nice as the S&W. Functionally it's the same with a nicely flared magwell and the finish is close to S&W. Don't know if they still have them for sale but worth a try. There are pictures of Valkyrie and many, many other lowers in our lower receiver sticky.

    Here ya go, this is my Valkyrie lower while still stripped.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  19. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Tikki such a funny guy . your gonna have this cat looking around for that magpul lower and he will never find one for sale . If he does he will be shocked to say the least . I think the last one I saw on gun broker had a $2000+ price tag on it just for a stripped lower :eek:
    Pick the roll mark you like best and go with it . different strokes for different folks
    I like the roll mark on the sun devil and the valkyrie
     
  20. FullautoUSA

    FullautoUSA Welcoming Committee/ Resident Pellet Gunner Lifetime Supporter

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    Won't matter when you buy if you live in commie land (California), your laws are already worse than those that would be enforced during the gun ban.