AR Gun Community, Does It Really Exist?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by OH_AKguy_937, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. OH_AKguy_937

    OH_AKguy_937 New Member

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    I am writing this post due to the recent boost in ALL gun prices.

    People who are gun enthusiasts claim that they are trying to save the Gun Community from the current politicians in DC, but where is the loyalty? What I mean is since Obama's campaign began last year, and since the Sandy Hook massacre, gun sales have spiked, similar to when he won the presidency in '08. My issue is that if we want to call ourselves a real Gun Community then distributors and gun dealers alike need to stop raising the prices on everything they get their hands on.

    I have been visiting gun shops and show in my area a lot recently to get a feel for what guns are available, and what's not available. I have noticed, as most have, that most shops are completely out of AR's unless they are in the $3k range, and they are starting to run low on hi-cap pistols as well. This is expected due to the current circumstances in Washington. I am most concerned though with our Gun Shows. My reason being that people are charging you $1,200 for an AR that was originally an $800 gun. This is showing NO loyalty to the people throughout the Gun Community.

    I personally have seriously began disliking Gun Shows. Not for political reasons, but because the guys at the tables are always trying to get over on people in the shows, and it's becoming even more evident now. I understand that they are trying to run a business, but don't tell someone that their gun is not worth what they are asking for it, then turn around and offer them half of what it's really worth. Then they will put a price tag on it at their table the next day, sometimes the same day, and charge people who are shopping $100 over what they guy selling was originally asking.

    I have also noticed recently that even some gun shops are taking the $800 AR's, throwing a $200 scope on it, and charging people $1,500 for that rifle. This is absurd, and once again shows no loyalty to your customers, or the so called Gun Community. If you count in the scope mounts you might add an additional $150, at the most. So you know have a gun that should cost $1,150 but they throw a $1,500 price tag on it. I know some of you will say they need to make money, but they were already making a profit when they were selling the $800 AR's. It seems that almost all dealers in the industry are taking advantage of all the people who are gun enthusiasts.

    The same dealers are also spiking the magazine prices as well, charging you $40 for a mag that costs $15 at retail. This is why I have started sticking with online shops versus the retail stores.

    I am sure that most of you will say it comes down to supply and demand, but that's not the case in my opinion. If the online retailers can still charge the retail price, so can the retail stores we visit for the same items. It just goes to show that there is really no Gun Community at all, or maybe there is, but no one has your back in the Community.

    Please feel free to post what you've noticed in your area, and your thoughts as well.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  2. OH_AKguy_937

    OH_AKguy_937 New Member

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    I am sorry if I posted this in the wrong area of the forum. I am new to the forum, please forgive me.
     

  3. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    It is my opinion that the market will determine the prices. This happened leading up to the '94 ban and prices went through the roof. I didn't have an AR then and didn't buy one at those prices. Smart move on my part. I have buddies who weren't so smart and paid tons of money in the last days, buying junk lowers that they never built up and are worth pennies on the dollar today for what they paid.

    Similarly, today I am not making any buys due to the prices. I might sell off a Glock or two and take advantage of the prices people are getting though. I have sold off a bunch of surplus ammo as well for the going rate which is far more than what I paid for it. And why shouldn't I?
     
  4. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Oh, and stop by the introductions thread and say hello. Welcome to the forum.
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    we currently live in a supposedly free society. along with that we like to think of ourselves as capitalistic. the ar15 and other semi-autos are in high demand because of a political bent towards stripping this nation of freedom and destruction of our economy. with demand comes higher prices.

    if our plitical leaders stick with the constitution and do not knuckle under to pressure from the forces of evil the demand will evaporate and guns will be plentiful again.

    some folks due to human nature are going to try and make a buck off the foolish who didnt prepare or those that were too young or poor at the time to prepare.

    the ones of us that are pat of the ar-community your referring to have had ar15's for quite a while and are likely to hold onto them until the follishness is over.

    think of it like this...

    when has a ban on anything ever not resulted in much wider distribution of that product?? before ronnie reagan's "war on drugs" there were relatively few drug dealers with an extreme minority of the population using drugs of any sort on a regular basis. 30 years later of warring on drugs you cant go 3 steps down a city street without running into a crack fiend or dealer.

    if guns are banned there will be an influx of true "assault rifles" that will make the production of remington arms look like a bunch of kindergardeners with a corner lemonade stand. when proucts are banned the availability increases.

    do you think that the crime lords arent going to take advantage of a vaccuum and not start running true military guns into a society that has always been based on firearms??
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  6. Sgt_Skrb_25

    Sgt_Skrb_25 New Member

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    I have managed to build a few since Thanksgiving. I refuse to pay for a P.O.S rifle that is worth $799 at best when they are asking $2,800. I went to a store and found an I identified brand AR with no ejection
    Port cover or forward assist, on a completed rifle. It also had 2 piece A2 hand guards and Chinese furniture on it. That's is ridiculous and someone was actually buying it! Another store wanted $250 for a basic CMMG LPK. I called the owner out on this and told him I will never come back to that sore and how if he had any loyal customers, he just lost them! I have a friend that works at a gun shop , and other than a lag in shipping , their cost has not gone up more than 10%, how does ours go up 300%. I get supply and demand ,but a business that is willing to bend its customers over like that, will not make it in he long run! They can only prey on noobs! When this is all over we will remember who tried ripping us off! I have managed to find parts on the Internet for far less than store prices. I still have a couple local shops that are honest If I'm in a pinch for something.
     
  7. Kumachan

    Kumachan New Member

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    I've been to a few stores in the area that as soon as Sandy Hook happened they were saying they had a HUGE increase in sales. AR's, parts and a lot of other guns were simply flying off the shelf. The main question everyone had after the initial blast was, "Are you getting any more?"

    Almost all were confident that they were being restocked and many even said that they next shipments were going to be coming in "any day". After stopping by week after week to check in on some of the claims; they never really restocked the shelves.

    But, IMO, I feel that most of the stores saw the extreme demand on the internet via auction/selling websites and they probably kept the stock off the shelves due to the fact they could get a greater margin by using those sites. So instead of angering their normal everyday customers with a giant increase in price due to the demand, they decided to just keep it out of sight and let the private free-market of the internet to drive the prices.

    One store in my area even went on the news to come out and say that their supply will not be available for purchase instore and only online auction sites will be their medium, due to the fact that some customers were getting aggressive with other customers almost to the point of a fist fight over the low availability of AR's.

    Is it right for the store to try and make more money and prevent their normal store customer from purchasing? Again we are in a free market society and prices are subject to the demand. I think it's totally in the store owners right to do this. Wouldn't you travel across a State to get a better deal ($200-$500 cheaper) on your AR as a customer? It's the same mentality for the store owner.
     
  8. kobel1up

    kobel1up New Member

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    Supply and demand is the way capitalism works. Is your complaint justified? Yes. As another person posted, you remember who tried to screw you and don't deal with them again. Now my problem with this AR community is when someone you know we'll and has ample supple of stuff. Like say 35 pmags and 10k rounds and won't sell anything even to family, that's where my beef is. I am speaking of my future brother in law, and his hoarding.
     
  9. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Sorry I strongly disagree , thats just called being prepared ;)
     
  10. kobel1up

    kobel1up New Member

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    Remember the OP was asking about the AR community, and why the price gouging. Now I do support and agree with capitalism, as far as soon to be family not helping. I call that rude. The best part is he maybe prepared, but he does ask for my help a lot when he comes for visits. Now I can tell him my price is, pmags or ammo no more freebies.
     
  11. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    The OP can call it what he will but the current prices are what the market is bearing ,EVERY DAY , EVERY WHERE . The only people I see complaining about the prices are the ones that dont have any or didnt stock up and try to make us that are stocked feel obligated to help supply them . I do not feel for those people . The AR community is tight ? Yes we are a tight group of people but no Im not going to short myself or family as this is what we may need to protect ourselves in our very future . Some people look at it differently than I do but my immediate family and I come first and foremost . I have several family members that are on their own . They already milk the system and get the freebies , They already know not to come knocking on my door, it will just be trouble for them. Sorry I sound so harsh and rude even to my family members but I grew up on bread , water and government cheese. We didnt have all the luxury freebies the people of today have and I will never go back to cheese sandwiches or make my kids go thru what I did .
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  12. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    If you live in the US, then you are always benefitting from the ways of a captialistic society. Prices vary on all products based on demand. Gasoline is a great example. Storms, supply disruptions, etc drive prices up. Stores with stock on hand increase prices based on future cost increases to them. When prices retreat, assuming they do, that retailer has the higher cost product on hand that must be sold. They trim their profit to move it. It can be done since they fattened profit when it began. The comparison is right now, gun part and accessories are up in price. When you sell a product for $100 you have to look at all aspects. If you buy it for $60, then add $10 to shipping, plus pay your associated cost such as building rent, employees, utilities and then even card processing fees ( realize that it cost more to process the same item at a higher price.....for example a gallon of gas sold for $1 costs 2.5 cents to the vendor in visa fees. That same gallon sold for $3 costs 7.5 cents to process from visa. While a nickel doesn't seem like a lot, think about that nickel for every gallon when you sell 20,000 gallons a day). So with a 10-15 percent cost increase you may see a 30-40 percent price increase. Now realize that you simply can't get inventory. People are willing to pay whatever they can just to get something. Doesn't mean we have to buy, nor do we have to do business with them later. But this price thing, it happens all the time with different products. Like the gas issues of the 1970's. find someone who treats you good and support them during and after the event. If things go back to normal the asshats like CTD will loose income. Those who didn't rape us will have more customers. But you should be thankful you live in a place where you can own an AR, instead of a place that they can't. Learn from these experiences and be prepared next time.
     
  13. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    When it comes right down to it, most people are only interested in their own pocket book.

    For what it's worth, I will relay this little story to you.

    So, I decided to sell my NORINCO MAK-90 on GunBroker that I no longer wanted because I upgraded to an Arsenal SLR-101S and only have so much room in my safe. I think I originally posted it for something like $500 or so. I think I paid $350 or $375 for it when I originally purchased it and put at least $400 dollars worth of aftermarket parts (Ultimak gas tube and rail hand guard w/ rail covers, Tapco stock, Tapco grip, Tapco G2 trigger, Chinese AK front sight and gas block, CNC Warrior NORINCO 84 style flash suppressor) and gunsmithing (front sight straightening, installation of the AK front sight and gas block, drilling for a cleaning rod, turning the barrel on a lathe to thread the muzzle for a flash suppressor) into the gun. I included several 30 round magazines, cleaning equipment, Chinese chest rigs, Blue Force Gear sling and sling loop. The gun was not pristine, but it was in no way abused, had no rust on it anywhere, and was always taken care of. I figured I would get the $500 for it but no more. It sold for over $1000. I never expected it to sell for that much and thought that surely no one would pay $1000 for a used stamped AK, no matter the condition or who the manufacturer was.

    Point is, I didn't do that, the bidders did. Why anyone would pay that much for a used AK of any kind is beyond me, but they did. The man that purchased it had AK's from just about every major manufacturer and wanted a stamped Chinese gun to shoot and for his collection. He stated that he was very happy with it and thought it was worth the money. What was I supposed to do, tell him that I wouldn't sell it to him at that price and not abide by the terms of the auction?

    The FFL's and many if not most of the private sellers are looking out for numero uno. If nobody does business with them, the prices will fall. If there is no AWB II, then the prices will plunge and the FFL's will be desperate for business. There's no real upside for anyone involved. I think that AWB II will ultimately fail because there's no support in Congress for it and the one thing politicians, even Democrat politicians, understand is giving up your seat by making unpopular votes on controversial legislation.

    If you absolutely have to have something now, then buy it and realize that you will pay a premium for it. If not, then do what the rest of us do and ride out the storm. There was a gun buying panic when Obama was first elected and I had no part in it. Shortly thereafter, magazines, ammunition, and firearms were available at reasonable prices. If the Democrats do succeed in passing AWB II, then they will also succeed in giving up their seats in Congress. Politicians are not rocket scientists, but they're not completely brain dead when it comes to keeping their power, which they value above everything else.
     
  14. kobel1up

    kobel1up New Member

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    Well stated. I believe in the free market I know if I wanted to part with my spike I could make a huge profit and buy another one or two after the panic. I won't part with it. It's never been shot and I always wanted one. I also agree with the other poster about protecting immediate family, I also agree some people weren't ready for this panic. I believe in being prepared, I just started on my supplies for an AR. I'm ready with my pistols, ammo, mags and the such. Now as for how I feel about my future brother in law and not selling anything. Well lets say now, no more working on cars for free or anything else. I don't expect anyone anywhere else to sell me anything, family that I help, I do. But that's just me.
     
  15. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    It does sound harsh but no matter what anyone says we're not that far removed from "the law of the jungle". All it takes is a crisis or natural disaster. I encourage my family and friends to be prepared for at least a couple weeks of a social breakdown. (Food, water, gas, batteries, guns, ammo, etc.) Few take it seriously and even make fun of me but if it happens guess who they'll come to for help. I'll try to help but it all depends on how bad it is and how long.
     
  16. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    If stores worry abot AR's <running out> due to govt actions they will try to get a high market price.
    Because where will they be when their product is illegal?
     
  17. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I couldnt agree more , These so called relatives " family members" I have offer nothing to bring to the table in a SHTF scenerio other than a mouth to feed and a hand out . They have never done squat for me or my family even when times werent great for us , most never show to any family events Thanksgiving , Christmas, etc . I have closer friends that are more like family than most of my relatives and they would help me out if I was ever in a financial SHTF and would help me put food on the table , Same way goes for them we have a mutual agreement between us friends to help each other out .
    My wife is finally seeing the light , she at first thought I was about half nuts , but she has several teacher " prepper " friends that she works with that have finally given her some insight of whats really going on . Would beside me if we cant go 30+ days with what she has stock piled for food and water let alone for the other crap I have she knows nothing about
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  18. GeneralPatton

    GeneralPatton New Member

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    I know what you mean. One of my neighbors who is a buddy of mine lived in a "gun free" house at his wife's demand. Her stance is her 3 kids...11, 4 and newborn around guns and accidents blah blah blah. He "dislikes" greatly not having any. A few weeks ago he asked me to help change her mind. He started in on her with "scenarios," to which her every answer was to come to my house cause I have all the guns. So even though she is a friend, I made the case quite bluntly. (Partly for her husband, partly for her true education). In less than 30 minutes I changed her mind and he is putting away a few bucks at a time to renter gun ownership. Sometimes all it takes is the blunt truth. Also, even though my mother inlaw and I didn't get along the first decade I was married, I recently learned she had a bit of prepper in her. Some good food and weapon stocks. Good enough I decided her place made a good bug out location. Certain loyalties take a back seat to self preservation. A lot of people will have to learn the hard way.
     
  19. Cattledog

    Cattledog New Member

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    There is no such price fixing community that Im aware of. The price gouging is indeed a result of supply and demand. Recently the prices are skyrocketing because the supply is running out AND the demand is high. As a dealer myself I'm on a 5 to 6 week waiting list for anything related to the AR 15 and there is still no guarantee I'll get what I want. Many distributors have stopped taking backorders altogether. In short, were now into the manufacturing bottleneck phase. Any dealer that has AR's available may be the last ones they get to sell for months. Its just the free market guys. When manufacturing can't keep up , then the prices go up. Sorry if you missed the boat :(
     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    it's called a freedom of choice. you have a choice. either pay what the asking price is or don't pretty simple. the person selling has the choice to ask any price he feels the need to ask. free market and supply and demand. simple economics. don't like the price then don't buy.

    if someone owns something and they don't feel like selling, then that's their choice. a person doesn't need to get all bent out shape just because another person doesn't want to sell off some of their guns or ammo. they are not obligated to sell just because they have it and you don't. that's just classic socialist thinking. take from those who have and give to those who don't!:rolleyes: