Anybody got a gas piston AR?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by FALPhil, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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    There are a few choices out there now.

    POF-USA

    DS Arms

    Lauer Weaponry

    Bushmaster/Quality Parts

    Z-M Weapons

    There may be more. Is this the wave of the future? I personally do not like the gas impingement system of the M16/AR15 for two reasons:

    (1) dumping ash into the chamber area makes cleaning a PITA. It's a little easier on the MAS 49/56, because the parts are large and crude, and the receiver has no nooks and crannies. But on the AR15, it takes 4 times as long to clean properly.

    (2) Buffer tubes suck. They look hokey. They sound funny during recoil. Because they don't fold, the most compact configuration is larger than it needs to be.

    If you can think of any more vendors or designs for piston ARs, please post them. I would like to do a comparison of all the entries.
     
  2. Spartan

    Spartan New Member

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    Sig 556

    I have a SIG 556.
     

  3. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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    I would have bought a Sig 556, which is an evolved AK operating system. The reason I didn't is that they put one of those goofy buffer tube stocks on it.

    Why, oh why? :mad:
     
  4. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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  5. AR Hammer

    AR Hammer New Member

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    I don't do a lot with the civilian market, so I'm not entirely sure what the 'Goofy Buffer Tube' is, or why it's 'Goofy'...
    (is 'Goofy' a technical term?:p )

    I have three, two are early military designs (Does anyone remember the Rhino Company?) and one is after market.

    The two early ones are over 20 years old and have the 'Stepped' actuation rods that mimic the original gas tube, and is a very short piston housing,

    The after market has a straight actuation rod and a much longer piston housing.
     
  6. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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    It is a technical term that applies to rifles that have no requirement for a buffer tube but have one installed anyway. Kinda like a propeller on a bicycle...
     
  7. AR Hammer

    AR Hammer New Member

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    I had a wind up key on a Vega once, does that meet the specifications?

    How about the fuse I had on the back of a Pinto once?:eek:
     
  8. billt

    billt New Member

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    Bushmaster and POF are the same gun. POF makes them for Bushy. Bill T.
     
  9. AR Hammer

    AR Hammer New Member

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    I was kind of wondering why everyone believes the buffer, tube and spring are no longer required when the short stroke gas piston is implemented?

    Removal of the recoil buffer spring to a forward position isn't a given, and most I've seen leave the recoil spring in the shoulder stock.

    I guess if you were one of the 'Short Gun, Spray & Pray, Hollywood Wanna-Be' guys then a folding stock is OK...
    Or even worse, one of the 'Machine Pistol' weenies:eek:

    Personally, when I pick up a rifle I want it to have a full, solid shoulder stock, a long barrel, be hyper accurate since I only intend on firing one well placed round at a time,
    Usually from 300 or more yards away.

    Folding stocks, Lights, Lasers, Bayonets, Vertical Grips, or any other of that 'Mall Sniper' or 'Tacti-Cool' crap doesn't interest me.
    That stuff is for cops that have displaced penis envy and pimple faced high school kids that play too many video games...
     
  10. Linchpin

    Linchpin New Member

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    AR Hammer it is ok tell us how you really feel.
     
  11. AR Hammer

    AR Hammer New Member

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    <RANT= ON>
    Sorry, I teach rifle marksmanship, and I get tired of the 'Spray & Pray' crowd.

    Nothing like teaching women and boy scouts, they usually get it the first time.
    It's the cops, and trying to teach recruits in the military for 7 years to actually use the sights and not to try and rely on all that crap gets to you after a while.

    It's pretty disheartening to have cops or 'soldiers' sit and bob their heads, agreeing with every thing you say, the go out and act like some 'Hood Rat' with the pistol turned sideways or spraying from the hip with no hope of even keeping the rounds in the backstop...
    Too may John Wayne, 'Rambo', and 'Boys In The Hood' movies have rotted their brains!

    I can see a carbine stock for entry guys or guys with LOTS of body armor, but Folding stocks? Come on!
    Would you trust your life to a guy that had a folding stock?
    I sure wouldn't! The only safe place around him would be in front of the muzzle about 25 yards!
    Stand in front of the target and you are assured to be absolutely safe!

    For crying out loud, our Airborne troops don't even use folding stocks anymore!
    Tankers and Hollywood wanna-be's, and I don't think there are many tankers posting here!

    <RANT= Off>
     
  12. billt

    billt New Member

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    I couldn't agree more! What good is a flashlight on a 300+ yard weapon?? I never could figure that out. Bill T.
     
  13. Eggers11B

    Eggers11B New Member

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    hmmmm

    First how are POF and Bushmaster rifles the same? POF is a piston system and BM are a blow back system, unless I’m wrong. Piston and blow back are 2 different systems.
    Second I agree somewhat with what everyone is saying about rifles. Folding stocks and spraying and shooting without using the sights or not using them right are the wrong practices of how to use a rifle or any type of weapon for that matter.
    A folding stock is only good for helping to carry your weapon in long movements, and a collapsible one is just as good. Any type of stock that will shorten your carbine/rifle to help you in urban/close combat is a big advantage. Last thing you need is a long rifle going into a room, it can be done but it's more practical, faster and more easy with a carbine and its stock pushed in. Any day I'd take a M4 over a M16, first the 14.5" barrel and collapsible stock help much more in urban and close combat and in other places where there is more range it doesn't cripple you i.e. woodland, desert, etc. You can always extend your stock out and the shorter barrel usually doesn't take away from range with 5.56. Both the M4 and M16 can hit and take down targets around 600m, and after 600m a small round like that isn't very accurate. For 7.62x51 a 20" barrel is usually ideal, but bolt action for combat isn't really needed, a M21 or M110 can hit a target 1000m just like a M24 and a kill shot is a kill shot. Now in companion shooting, yeah you'd probably want a bolt action.
    Red dot/Halo sights and extra, why would you say they aren’t good and are items for show? EOTECH and AimPiont are great tools to help you shoot accurate faster. To start with you can still nail a target 300m out and longer, and when you do you can have usually have both eyes open (depending on range) so you can see surrounds. And reflex sights have proven they are superb when dealing in close combat and etc. I am a big fan of ACOGs, no batteries, very reliable and anywhere from 1.5x to 6x and so you have a good range depending on what you are using. Now some ACOGS even come with a reflex sight as part of it, so you have range and close up. For a M4/M16 I'd only go with a 4x or less no real need for more, for a 7.62 with 16" or less barrel I'd go with a 6x, for the only reason that even with a 14.5 barrel you can still hit a target anywhere from 700m, to 900m out depending on the weapons bore, your sights, and your skill. Reliable, well made Red dots, Halo and AGOCS short range scopes are all great tools to help you have an edge over your enemy.
    Also try going into a room without a light on your weapon without flash bangs or such and tell me how it goes for ya. Being able to blind your enemy or surprising them with a bright light on them can work well on giving you that 10th of a second advantage on them so you get the shot off first. For just range shooting or companion shooting or long shooting, ya I don’t see a need for it. But for urban or close combat it is a good tool to help you, same with a front grip. A front grip used RIGHT can help you a lot if you need to fire standing or from a knee or moving. There is a reason why Green Berets, SEALS, SAS, Infantry and etc use such ideas, it isn’t too look cool, they use then because such items are tested and proven to help in combat.
    Now I am a big downer on show boat shooting and not holding your weapon right and being unsafe, there is no place for those types of things and it isn’t professional. Full auto/3 round burst 9 times out of 10 isn't needed, without a doubt its fun but, you can fire pretty fast on semi if needed. Depending what your job is and what you are using your weapon for full auto should be practiced but not stressed. And I ALWAYS teach my guys to fire with your weapon in the pocket, looking down their sights whatever type they use correctly, breathe right, hold their weapon right and etc. Remember there is a method to most madness haha.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  14. ronl

    ronl New Member

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    +1 on the XCR. I've had one for over a year and it is a very well designed rifle. Have had no problems with mine whatsoever. I, too was considering 556, but I couldn't stomach the stock either. I think I made the right choice. It is just as or more accurate than an M-4. The best thing about it is the way RA is standing behind their product. Pity more people don't consider the XCR when looking for a piston rifle. Only drawback is the price, which is not all that bad considering you're getting a free floated quad rail in the deal.
     
  15. Eggers11B

    Eggers11B New Member

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    ...

    The XCR sin't a bad weapon, true, but POF, H&K, MagPul, FNH and etc make some just as good if not better, I don't understand what is peoples problems with buffers, it doesn't hurt your weapon at all, usually it helps take some of the stress off of other areas as well as less recoil slightly. Odd
     
  16. Shotgun Shooter

    Shotgun Shooter New Member

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    This thread is almost 2 years old. Please keep the older threads in their grave. No point in bringing them back to life.

    S.S.
     
  17. KartoffelSalat

    KartoffelSalat New Member

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    folding stocks ARE bull****....but lights, lasers (of the IR variety) and vert grips have very good uses.....you cant always be 300 yards away...in fact....in my experience in Iraq....you almost never are