Another rifle recommendation, maybe a cartridge?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by DogOne, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. DogOne

    DogOne New Member

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    Thanks for allowing someone ask another one of these.

    To get to the point, im fishing for opinions for a rifle to buy that fits certian criteria.
    -Bolt action with some kind of mag capacity.
    -Able to reach 1000yds accurately, sub 5 moa would be fine im not looking for competition grade here, hell, hitting dish plate size target would work for me.
    -Under 500 bucks, ehh! see what i did there?

    For this i basically narrowed it down to a Remington or Winchester in .300wm. Why cause its rated out to 1200yds. its readily available pretty much everywhere, and the rifles in that cal are in that price range.

    Thats where im at because i do not know anything about bolt actions or its associated rounds at that distance. Im not going to spend $3000 dollars on a bolt action thats why i rulled out such rounds like a .338. hell i wouldnt go over 800 bucks for a bolt gun. anything close to a grand and im blowing money on an awesome semi id rather have. Come ooooon Krebs.

    Im looking for specifically something like that because it would be my only "toy" gun. i loved rifle range and i was always good at it. something about hitting a silhouette target at 500yds iron sights was always a feel good moment. Id like to just put a good scope on it and say "yea i can hit something at 1000yds".
     
  2. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    Just my opinion here, but I would set my goals a little lower if I were you and start thinking 800 yards and smaller caliber. It's going to take a lot of practice to get good at that range and I personally wouldn't want to practice a lot with an off the self .300 mag hunting rifle.

    I have zero experience at 1000 yards so take this for what it's worth, which isn't much, but I would definitely go with something with less recoil. There are a host of rifles and calibers that would have no problem at 800 yards. You could probably stretch those out to 1000 with some practice. I believe the Army list the maximum effective range of the M24 (.308) at 800 yards and the Marines list it at 1000yards? So you don't necessarily require a .300 mag.

    Hopefully someone with more experience at that range will chime in?
     

  3. ineverFTF

    ineverFTF New Member

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    I have never shot that far so take this with a grain of salt. But tluker is right. Try something like a .308 or a .270 that has 800 yard capabilities and move up. Said you wanted a bolt. For the price you want the savage axis or a remington 700 are your best bet.

    If you want a nice 1000$ semi look for a used ar-10 or something similar in 308.

    If you are insistent on a 300win mag and want it cheap then go with a tikka or howa. It might be more like 600-700 but thats the cheapest you can get a 1000 yard gun.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    many good suggestions here from the others on this, and i will add my own. unless you have or consistently shoot at those types of ranges, whatever rifle or claiber you buy is not going to get you there, regardless of the money spent. there lots and lots of trigger time to get good at a 1000 yards. it's not just the rifle, but the shooter that makes 1000 yard shots, accurately. there are many rifles and calibers that are capable, but more so than the average shooter.

    start with a good bolt action in 308 and a very good scope and start at much more realistic ranges first. BTW, what is the furtherest distance you have ever shot before, accurately? when you start past 400-500 yards, you are starting into the mythical area of shooting. everything gets way more difficult and the equipment to reach further distances like these, starts to get much more expensive. the rifle, the scope and the ammo. long range shooting is also an artform that many want ot be able to do, but few truly excell at.
     
  5. Intheshop

    Intheshop New Member

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    The interface between action and stock(wood or synthetic)plays a huge role in the accuracy dept.Your budget is going to be a serious limiter in this area.You can help the situation simply by going with a less recoiling calibre.....a .308 (as posted above),is a nice place to start.

    Also,ammo plays a big role.........sooner or later everyone end sup handloading.Cost,convenience and the ability to load more specific(for "that" gun) are just a few reasons.So again,the .308 is just a dreamboat to load for.

    Basically,you're stacking the "deck" in your favor.Good luck,shopnut.
     
  6. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    Wanting so much for so little!! 5moa ?? M a rifle that can shoot sub 1moa . Try some searchs on different forums and see what other post along the same lines came up with. You really have to see what goes on at long range compitions too. Guess you have a range to shot at for shooting 1200 yards?

    For the 300 win mag in you. Go buy a savage/stevens 200 in the caliber of your choice spend a few extra bucks on a rifle basix trigger ,sav-1. You now have 385 +tax and shipping . Guys have inleted aluminum bar and exopy in there stocks to stiffin them and added weight. Now buy a EGW 20 moa scope base, 48 bucks at your home, and get your scope and rings. Your under 500 dollars with shipping and tax. All you now need is scope and ammo .
     
  7. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    First off, DogOne,

    Welcome to the Firearms Talk Forum.

    Please take my response with a grain of salt.

    Now, if an accurate 1K yard rifle were available for

    500$, don't you think we'd all have one?

    It seems like this question is asked a lot, primarily by

    folks who have never even shot a .22LR yet.

    1. Start with 50 and 100 yards, and work your way up.
    (I, myself, may be stuck at 100-200 yards for the rest of my life. )

    2. 1000 yards isn't easy. Wind, planet drift, direction, temperature, and

    humidity are only a few of the factors which are going to affect

    your accuracy at this distance.

    3. Accuracy is expensive. 500$ for the gun? At that range, try

    500$ for the scope. my mean calculation (YMMV) for accuracy

    past 200 yards is : Initial cost of 200 yard accurate gun x .75 for

    every 150 yards additional. Not to mention, you must also properly handle vvv

    4.ballistics- Without proper ballistics knowledge, a 5000$ rifle

    in your hands will miss it's target at 1000 yards, anyway.



    However, if you just want a casual plinking rifle with the outside

    range of 1000 yards, perhaps a Mauser, Springfield 1903, or

    Enfield will do the trick. But even these old milsurps are

    probably going to run you in excess of 750$...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  8. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    ya...$500 gun and $1000 glass for 1000 yards sounds about right.

    and 5 moa? you realize that's worse than an ak running wolf right? At 1000 yards 5 moa would be a 50" circle.

    5 moa @ 100 yards is a 5 " pattern.
    5 moa @ 200 yards is a 10" pattern.
    etc etc.

    start off at 100 yards, work your way to 200, then 300, then up and up and up.

    Don't forget, at longer ranges, your glass (optics) will be the same if not more expensive that your actual rifle.

    Also remember, there are three main factors to shooting. Shooter, hardware ammo. Your results will be limited by those three things.
     
  9. DogOne

    DogOne New Member

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    yea i have no idea what moa is hahaha. i mean i do, but i dont really care cause to me thats slick rick talk for people who try to hit this size target or that size target at this range, and their rifle is this good and they are that steady -can you hit it or not? so yea i admit for that i had no idea where i was going, my thought was MOA is from the point you aim on a target but not multiplied by the range - derp

    thats why i just broke down and said "something i can hit a dinner plate with." that would be somewhere like something with a 16 - 20 inch diameter of where i aim, thats good enough for me. im not looking for a rifle that can keyhole, but something that can HIT at 1000yrds.

    my experience is the rifle range i did in the corps every year. well every one else "did" it, i took it as a competition. im not going to spout the awards i got from it or the bets i cashed in on from SNCOs because eveyones a badass on the internet. Plus i expand on that growing up with my grunt father who would bet my allowance on if i could hit what he hit at such and such range. so my max i have shot is of course 500yds but to tell me "ohhh well, 1000 yds is reaaaallly reeeaaallly hard" i know thanks for the warning, but im going to try it anyway.
    do i have enough land? hell no, but thankfully im in Texas where every inbreed good friend of mine has inherited enough land to become his own zip code. they want to shoot cause none of them know how in the first place. how do you own an AR and not know how to BZO it?

    i hear what everyone is saying about a .308 and i tell you it does sound appealing. but again i dont want to settle for 800yds. i want to play with 1000. thats why i asked if i have the right caliber in mind, and can i do it with a under 500 buck bolt gun. if so, awesome cause then my predictions were correct and i wasnt too far off the ball.

    i appreciate the guidance from everyone. im glad no one has tried to neanderthal me yet with this question so that i greatly appreciate. but to clear up some of the questions - i know my way around when shooting, and not just the corps' range. i may not know the factors at 1000 but thank god for the internet, i can assure you ill figure it out. I love the .308 round but id rather spend the money on a semi in a .308, again the $1000 complaint.

    Thank you again guys for looking out, i know you all are just looking out for me and making sure im not a blow hard thats gonna shoot himself in the foot. figuratively and literally
    .
     
  10. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    MOA is Minute of angle and it just refers to the angular difference between shots. 1 MOA is approximately a 1in group at 100 yards. Because it is refering to the angle, yours groups get larger at further distances but it is still whatever MOA. A 1MOA rifle will give you 1in groups at 100 yards, 2in groups at 200 yards, and theoretically 10in at 1000 yards. Of course there are a of other factors that come into play that will open up that group at 1000 yards.

    If you're after a cheap rifle that will shoot then look for a used savage in good shape.

    If you really want a .300mag then go for it, but I do recommend that you go price a box of premium bullets before you get one. I would also suggest you think about a 7mm mag if you're determined to go with a mag caliber. It has less recoil and will still reach out there.:)
     
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    DogOne, i think you need to realize that there is more to shooting a 1000 yards than you're ready for. highly doubtful that a $500 bolt gun is going to get there, doubtful a $1000 AR in 308 is going to get there either. 1000 yards is a very long shot and a long time the bullet is in the air getting to the target. have you given any thought to how much you are going to spend on the scope? rule of thumb on scopes, quality glass ain't cheap. if you can't see he target, you can't hit the target, period. you need to plan on spending a $1000 or more on just the scope, and probably closer to $1500 or more for quality glass to be able to shoot at a 1000 yards or more. what about ammo? are you going to reload? if not, then you will be spending lots of money for premium ammo to shoot longer ranges. have you ever shot a 300 Win. Mag.? it has some massive recoil! try shooting one about 100-150 times in a day and then tell us how good your shoulder feels! shooting long ranges is about much time spent behind the trigger and shooting. try out the 300 W. M. and you will see what we are trying to tell you. there is much more than just buying a rifle and slapping a scope on it and going out and shooting a 1000 yards. i think you will find it much harder than you think.
     
  12. DogOne

    DogOne New Member

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    thanks for the good lookin, axxe. but i must say. 500yds is easy as hell, cake walk. being told 800 aint to hard with a .308 with some good practice. apparently the laws of physics for that additional 200yds, go awry. im not being a smart ass but thats what i understand now.

    so if i am to understand that i cant do it, fine. can it be done for 800 with a .300? what about 700? because if i have to buy a $1000 bolt rifle to go past 500yds without hand loading or special calibers is a bullsh-t waste of money...for me, not generally everybody cause i know some cool people with bolt guns.

    yes, i have fired a .300. also a .308, .303, 7.62-54r, 7mm, 8mm, and yes they do hurt, oh well ill live. i frac for a living, ill get over a sore shoulder along with my sore everything else. Thats the good thing about shooting, the pain from it gets addictive, like tattoos.

    im sorry if it appears im arguing about it, im just talking from the lower half of the spectrum. if i can put 20 rounds in a row into the chest of a silhouette target at 500yds with dirt covered government surplus ammo, a rifle that had to be at least from the gulf war, a fu-ked up rear sight, and the foot from a DI on my back, it has to be possible to hit...a car? - at 1000yds with a good rifle and a good scope, from there i can work. i dont see why everything has to be bad ass top of the line to accomplish the same crap...or maybe thats just my nature.
     
  13. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    well if you think it's doable then who am i to try and reason with you and explain the logistics of shooting long ranges. trying to explain any further will just be a waste of my time. if you think that it can be done on a $500 budget, i wish you luck! might want to do some reading up on the subject and do some learning and some more in depth research.

    but the part that galls me is, you made this thread and now you seem to know more than the rest of us on the subject and that sir is pure arrogance. if you seemed to know so much more than the rest of us, why did you even bother to ask for our opinions or suggestions? don't sak for advice or suggestions and then throw it back in our faces as if you already know all the answers. that sir is just plain arrogant and rude. i for one am done with this thread, have a good evening.
     
  14. DogOne

    DogOne New Member

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    10-4, i have all the information i need. no back and forth online. having a disbelief of a subject and then being flamed for disagreeing on the difficulty of it. dont bother asking how a wheel works when you tell people youve driven before cause then you get bitched at for it. have a good one everybody.
     
  15. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Without having any 1st hand experience on what you are talking about axxe has it right. 700 yards is a long way, 1000 yards. Forget a 500.00 rifle.

    This is downright disrespectful.

    qoute:
    my experience is the rifle range i did in the corps every year. well every one else "did" it, i took it as a competition. im not going to spout the awards i got from it or the bets i cashed in on from SNCOs because eveyones a badass on the internet. Plus i expand on that growing up with my grunt father who would bet my allowance on if i could hit what he hit at such and such range. so my max i have shot is of course 500yds but to tell me "ohhh well, 1000 yds is reaaaallly reeeaaallly hard" i know thanks for the warning, but im going to try it anyway.
    do i have enough land? hell no, but thankfully im in Texas where every inbreed good friend of mine has inherited enough land to become his own zip code. they want to shoot cause none of them know how in the first place. how do you own an AR and not know how to BZO it? qoute!

    Funny, never have heard a Marine call any other military member that was their father a BS term. Was you all in da moter pool?? You are quite rude. Must be the inbreeding.
     
  16. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    WTF is a .300?? If those calibers hurt your shoulder, all except the .300WM if that is what you were refering too, you are in for a big suprise as they are all low pressure rounds and pretty much ***** cats in the cartridge world.
     
  17. kalboy26

    kalboy26 New Member

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    I would recommend a 300 wsm. I have a tikka and got it for about that price. I LOVE that gun. I have a 9x scope on it and have no problem out to 700 yards on a 8 inch plate. Never tried anything further cause its too hard for me to find in my scope and I obliterate the Target. Put a limb saver pad on and you can shoot a whole box if you want. Yes rounds are expensive, but they are for any big cal. I just shoot the fusions.
     
  18. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    A standard 30.06 with a 180 grain SPBT comes to mind for

    a "proper" cartridge size that's economical, for this intended purpose.


    The ballistics are a whole 'nother animal...