Another Dead Bushnell

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by The_Kid, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    This is the second Bushnell Elite 3200 I have gotten, the first lasted 20 shots before it died, this one lasted maybe 120. This one replaced the other since I was assured the other one dying was a fluke. This makes 2 dead Bushnell Elite 3200s since August.

    Here are the last 3 cold bore shots I took with it since I worked up a winter load.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-RsQaI1h9U"]Winter 30-30 Load[/ame]
    ...
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSH1rlBrzpw"]30-30 Hits Closer Than The 30-06[/ame]
    ...
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkpMkeJSuak"]Winchester Lever Action[/ame]

    It hits in the same area even though it should be 12 inches lower by the 3rd shot.

    I'm going to take the scope off tomorrow and try the iron sights to make sure it isn't the rifle. I am 99% sure it isn't the rifle because the last 3 shot group I took with the thing was 1 13/16" at 300 yards. I've always had a problem with this scope needing one shot before the settings take.

    I also tried a test of sorts, I adjusted down 6" again like I did the other times, then adjusted over 2 1/4, which I am pretty sure I did at least one other time. I took another shot at the same distance, with a combined adjustment of 18" lower. It was still high!

    The lateral adjustments seemed to take that time, it was a little too far right.

    So I tapped the turret, (I've seen people that do that every adjustment with other scopes and it seems to work for them.) I tapped and then took a shot, tapped and took another shot, etc...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uvx_lxnJLI"]Shi* Scope[/ame]

    My 4th shot was 18" lower than the first.

    I then started adjusting trying to get it back on target but it is shooting willy-nilly now.

    The scope mount is rock solid, I used Permatex high strength Threadlocker Red to attach the mount to the rifle and the top screws are tight as a drum.

    This is almost the exact thing the first one did; the only difference was the lateral adjustment got stuck in a specific area before it broke free to then shoot willy-nilly.

    This isn't a post about "Bushnell Sucks!" it is about what can I do with this telescope to turn it into a working rifle scope?

    Are there aftermarket innards I can get to make this $220 telescope work as marketed?

    Yes, I know; it has a lifetime guarantee, I am not interested in a temporary fix by replacing this one with the same flawed craftsmanship, I want something that actually works without breaking the bank. I am tired of wasting bullets hoping this thing is going to work in the next shot.

    I am thinking I should just get another Nikko Stirling Diamond like on my 30-06, but I really don't want to settle for this being an expensive 10x eye relief telescope.

    HALP!
     
  2. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    Additionally, the mounts are not angled and the screws are not too tight. the tube has no paint wear so it isn't too loose either.

    The mounting is perfect. I am sure it is the scope.

    I am sure this scope is supposed to be failing like it is. That is why they boast of the 4200 having "recoil tested with 10,000 rounds of 375 H&H for unfailing reliability" and the 3200 is simply "recoil tested to 1,000 rounds of a .375 H&H magnum".
     

  3. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I bought a Bushnell a while back for Varmint hunting. 4-12x40mmAO. It would not zero, it refused to zero. When I bore sighted it, the reticule moved, But once I put it on the bench, the POI would not change. High right. I replaced it w/ a Sightron SII 6.5-20x42mmAO. The rifle shoots like a champ now.
     
  4. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Have you checked the rifle at all. Sounds like you have your mind made up that it is the scope. Could it be the handguard touching the barrel. Or maybe something is wrong with the rifle. Me I would can them god awful see through rings. They are the worst kind of rings to have on anything. I find it hard to believe that 2 of any scope in a row had the exact same problem. Have you taken the rifle to a smith to have it checked out? Maybe the barrel is lose there are plenty of problems out there that could contribute to the problem.
     
  5. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    Additional Information

    At first I put shims under my rear mount to better align the rings; which fortunately also gave me more elevation adjustment.


    To eliminate the possibility that the screws are too tight I measured the scope tube at all angles with a micrometer, there is a .002 variance. 1 inch is the smallest and 1.002 is the max; at both mounts the vertical is the larger. I am sure that is acceptable.

    To display exactly what is happening, I loaded 10 more cartridges; as always, quality control being first and foremost.

    Before I went out to the range, I made sure the ring screws were looser than usual. I tightened them with this screwdriver good and tight.

    [​IMG]


    When it started getting cold is when my accuracy died. The first video when I was working up a winter load is after I first noticed the rifle shooting willy-nilly. I thought maybe the cold was effecting my powder burn rate, in turn effecting barrel harmonics.
    So when I took the rifle out today to set up my target and such I made sure my rifle was in the cold for about 1/2 hour . I then loosened the back ring screws so if there was any tension between the different expansion/contraction of my receiver and scope would become a non-issue.

    I proceeded in getting my zero at 300 Yards.

    Here is the 300 yard target.

    [​IMG]

    My first shot was 1.5 inches high and 7 inches left. I adjusted accordingly, no tension in the dials; as far as I can tell, everything is working wonderfully!

    The second shot was .5 inch high, (acceptable,) the lateral adjustment still 7 inches left. I notice the scope has moved 1/4 inch so I loosen all ring screws and tighten them with the next size bigger screwdriver shown below, (the screwdriver I used initially,) with a rotating type pattern, (you know, like lug nuts.)

    [​IMG]

    I take the third shot without any adjustments. I am still in the same spot laterally but now 6.25 inches low. I adjust accordingly.

    The 4th shot lands in the upper left corner of my inch bull. I go for a group with those settings.

    As you can see, the group of shots 4, 5 and 6 is 4 inches. The scope is shooting willy-nilly! It is not me, it is not the rifle, I clean the barrel each shot. Everything is as close to the previous shots as humanly possible. That is more than double my largest group with this set-up.
    I triangulate the center of those shots and adjust accordingly.

    Shot #7 is 5 inches high, 1.25 right. I only adjust down 5.25 inches.

    At this time he wind is starting to pick-up with a 4mph, 4:30 wind, so I decide to aim where the x is, hoping the shot drifts into the square.

    Shot #8 hit .75 inches low and exactly perfect laterally according to POA. I decided to go for another group with my last 2 shots.

    Shot #9 was the only shot I knew I missed. When the shot was touched-off I seen the square above the line plain as day. The square was sitting on the cross-hair, the cross-hair being 1 inch at 300 yards; meaning I errored 1 inch low. It should have been 1.75 inches low which is the size of my usual group at that range.

    shot 10 hit just a hair high of center square, on the right edge. Right where I figured the wind would take me.

    That group, (considering I missed shot #9,) should have been 2.25 inches, if all went well. I think the scope was in error 1/2 inch at that range at those settings.

    Now... If the scope somehow locks-up on those settings, that would be cool. It is only a 600 yard rifle and I will be able to hold over or under and use Kentucky windage at those ranges. What I'll have is an expensive telescope mounted on a rifle. Unless I can find some quality replacement parts, I think I'm going to have to live with that.

    Just an oddity. The elevation setting it is on now, it is the same setting I had it on with shot #2.


    Thank you for your input and time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  6. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    If the scopes are weak links, that isn't all that surprising.

    You can tell by the patterns in the target I just posted, it is kinda hard to miss 3 shots in a row that end up in a straight line 8.5 inches tall and 1 inch wide. Especially when there was a 7 inch lateral scope adjustment.

    I mean, how many people do you know that conclude that their scope is messed up by HITTING the target? And at 300 yards with a 30-30 no less!

    Think about it. 3 different shots at 300 yards over 3 weeks and they end up less than 2 inches from each other. What are the odds of my rifle shooting that good/bad?
     
  7. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Maybe the cold weather is affecting the lube of the internal mechanics of the scope.

    I would still try it on another rifle just to be sure.

    If it were me I would put some better mounts on it as well. Mounts are cheap in the over all scheme of all things shooting.
     
  8. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  9. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Just rotate the scope 90 deg to the left that will take care of the eject issue.
     
  10. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    That is a good idea! Thanks!
     
  11. deth502

    deth502 New Member

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    i love the see thru mounts on my 30-30 lever.

    as was stated, its not a 300 yd rifle. its a brush gun. having the irons there and ready for quick 20 yd running shots is a great option to have, imo.

    i wouldnt put them on a long range bolt gun, but theyre great for what theyre designed for, imo.
     
  12. Rumpelhardt

    Rumpelhardt New Member

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    The see through mounts could be at least part of the problem. Google "consistent cheek weld" and read. It would be even more important on a rifle used for quick shots on a moving target.
    As to the Elite 3200 Tactical, I have that same scope. It has been a trooper for me. It has taken abuse no scope should be put through and come back for more. That's just me though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  13. Tuner

    Tuner New Member

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    It looks like the rifle is a Winchester lever action and while I did not see a caliber mentioned I would assume that it is a 30-30. First point is that this type of leveraction rifle has a two piece stock which tend to be sensitive to "hold pressure". If the rifle is not held the same way each time, more or less foreend down pressure, how tight it is pulled into the shoulder, etc can definately have an impact on group size. A good M-94 can group amazeing well at 100 yards, 1 inch groups are possible, but that is not the norm. Probably more like 1.5 to 2 inches at 100 yards is more normal. Extend this out to 300 yards and we are talking in terms of 4.5 to 6 inches with perfect holds and conditions.

    Next issue is at 300 yards the 30-30 with a 150 Gr flat point bullet will have pleanty of time for even a light puff of wind to blow that bullet all over the place. Six inches or more is very possible.

    Why would anyone want to sight in a 30-30 at 300 yards and then state they could hold Kentucky windage for shots at 600 yards. The only thing I would shoot at 600 yards with a 30-30 is dirt clods!

    Mabye I am wrong, but I get the feeling that someone is playing games! There are some, but how many ranges are equipped with a 300 yard range? Not many.

    I think our writer is having a good laugh.
     
  14. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    not quite a tack driver

    Basically your gun is shooting 6 inch strings at 300 yds which is pretty phoenominal for a 30-30 not to mention the see thruogh rings,scope movement and wind. What kind of ammo are you using? I need to get some for Dads 30-30. Lap the rings,check the crown,watch the reticles not the target, follow through and practice holding the gun exactly the same every shot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  15. Tuner

    Tuner New Member

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    WalterGa, where in Geporgia? I am in Savannah.
     
  16. Jeehs

    Jeehs New Member

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    I wouldn't expect a 30-30 to be a nail driver at 150yds. 300yds is just too far for a 30-30 to hit with a huge amount of accuracy. If your aiming for that distance get a .270 or .308, That way youll be happy a bit further than 300yds. :-D
     
  17. Kjpglobal

    Kjpglobal New Member

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    IMHO I would use a cantilever mount and scout scope on this gun and never anything more. Let the situation warrant the application. I learned this when I couldnt get my Pinto to run 10 second quarter miles in stock configuration. When I found out what I needed to spend to get it there, I decided just to let it keep being a pinto. (and bought a Mustang).
     
  18. whirley

    whirley New Member

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    whirley

    Right. The 30/30 is an excellent 150 yard rifle. I prefer the Marlin microgroove over my old Winchester. Equipped with no more that a good quality 4X scope, it works very well in the Pa. cut over woods we hunt. However, my son prefers the .35 Remington cartridge. He says "one shot, meat in the pot because they drop in their tracks". It also makes for interesting conversation at camp.
     
  19. Jeehs

    Jeehs New Member

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    Yea, For the main distance I hunt My Dad's 30/30 would work, But it doesn't have a scope. I'm not bad with irons sights, But I'm better with a nice little scope. Here in Tenn. where I hunt, I'm a walker sitting in a stand hasn't appealed to me yet, Your range can range anywhere from 10ft-500yds. Sometimes,We litteraly shoot from Mountain to Mountain.
    On my .270 I have a Bushnell 3-9x40mm, Brings cans up nice and Close for target practice!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  20. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    This is an old thread but I just got back to this site a bit ago and wanted to address the comments in my thread...


    When it is scoped, I get less than 2 inches at 300 yards. And that is with a $50 scope.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And there are no issues with "hold pressure". Ridiculous.


    It is 8 inches in a right angled 10mph wind with a 30-06 using a spire point. 20 inches with the bullet you suggest in a 30-30, it is mathmatics, very easily figured if you know how to estimate wind..

    I shoot targets at that range... Tiny targets.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQM9N6wQko"]YouTube - 550 Yard, 30-30 Winchester 94, Hornady 160gr FTX[/ame]

    My personal range does.

    You are wrong... again. I get this type of comment from people that can't shoot. They seem to think if they can't, no one can.