Angry Question for the U.S. Government

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by HenryACR, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. HenryACR

    HenryACR New Member

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    If you wouldn't trust the 5.56 to take down a deer for you, why would you expect it to protect you from bad guys with body armor and automatic weapons?
     
  2. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    Because if you kill an enemy soldier, his associates leave him and keep on fighting. If you wound one enemy soldier, then one or two of his associates stop fighting to administer first aid. One shot and you can effectively take out multiple targets. And just like with a deer, shot placement is key and the 5.56 can be pretty devistating to a human. Give it some credit.
     

  3. HenryACR

    HenryACR New Member

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    as true as that sounds, I've heard far too many horror stories of insurgents continuing to shoot, to run, to kill. A friend of mine literally shot the man, and watched him turn around to see who shot him! Too many American deaths have resulted from a lack of kinetic energy.
     
  4. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    Which is probably why alot of specialized units are using M14s I think, as well as the military considering use of the 6.8SPC round in the AR platform.
     
  5. HenryACR

    HenryACR New Member

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    honestly, you'd think they would've caught on a little sooner. It's been over 40 years of the 5.56 runt, coupled with direct impingement! So we've been giving our country's protectors a weapon that possesses barely any stopping power, combined with the fact that it's extremely vulnereble to failures, stoppages, and jams. It's time for a change, gentlemen.
     
  6. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    But it is lightweight and and and spiffy looking.


    j/k I'm not a good enough shot for the .223.
     
  7. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    That rifle has come a long way in it's forty years of use. Gas impingment system or not, it's still a good rifle. The first incarnations may have not been that great, but today's AR's are completely different.
     
  8. TheDaggle

    TheDaggle Member

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    Shooting people in the back is considered bad etiquette, anyway :rolleyes:
     
  9. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    The reason for the small caliber is simple - marksmanship is a lost skill and soldiers can carry more rounds of 5.56 than the bigger calibers. I know a LOT of combat soldiers as I work for the 3rd ID and there are no real complaints that the 5.56 is not effective. My SIL was a Cav Scout and his M4 served him very well in combat in the desert. When the soldiers tell me it works - I generally believe them. You may have heard stories - I've talked with a lot of the soldiers directly.

    As far as the 5.56 being a hunting round, any game animal is more difficult to kill humanely than a human so that's why larger rounds are mandated...
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  10. JR36

    JR36 New Member

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    Never had issues with 5.56 or the M16/M4 platform. In country or CONUS.
     
  11. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    JR, NGIB, I'm no expert but I dig the AR weapon platform and it's good to hear your opinions as they are much more valid than my own. Truthfully, I only have two years behind the trigger of my AR and it's accuracy, reliability, and enjoyabilty to shoot astounds me.
     
  12. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    The only rifle I have is an AR carbine in 5.56 - for when the zombies come...
     
  13. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    Mine is a big ol 15 pound beast with a 24" bull barrel, so I'll try and keep the zombie perimeter out at three hundred yards, but if they breach that then I will be counting on the FTF members that own carbines.
     
  14. mach1337

    mach1337 New Member

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    well squirrel i hope that you have a regular mag release for when the zombies get here. and if im still in cali i will be looking for a way back east to my family were i know we could hold out way better as a group.
     
  15. JR36

    JR36 New Member

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    SS, your breakdown on why 5.56 is what I was always told, takes three out of the fight as opposed to one. Course we ain't really fighting Warsaw Pact countries anymore but I've seen more than a few targets try to aid their fellows.

    The "Vs armored enemy" argument certainly can hold water I think but not really applicable right now.

    My cleaning "regime" was simply a few sprays of rem oil/drops of clp on the BCG and cycle it a few times. Do that once every few days. Once a week run the bore snake a time or two through the barrel, disassemble the BCG and spend a bit picking carbon. All in all, about 5-10mins a week. Course you start to figure out how/when it needs to be cleaned based on previous experience and what you've been doing with it.

    Ejection port cover is your friend.

    Any problems I ever had were mag related.
     
  16. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    That is more the fault of the mandated use of ball ammo than a fault of the 5.56 round. A 62 grain round at 3,000+ fps packs a wallop...so much so in fact that at short ranges the bullet is likely to pass right through without transferring much of its energy to the target. That is the cause of much of the problem. HP rounds would eliminate some of the over penetration issues but would sacrifice the metal penetration of the 5.56 green tips, but it is a moot point given the battlefield prohibitions on HP ammo.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    This thread stands on the premise that folks wouldn't trust the 5.56mm round to take down a deer, versus taking down an "armored" combat soldier.

    First off, I believe a well placed round is a well placed round. Hit a PNW deer with a 5.56mm hunting tipped round in the right spot, it's going down..... eventually. But, it may not be right away, it may scamper and it may eventually bleed out, but not before the adrenaline ruins most of the meat.

    Hunting an animal as has been discussed around these parts involves a certain respect for a quick and as painless a kill as possible, with the intention of making use of the meat.

    I don't know about you, but I don't have any plans on eating a soldier, so I don't mind having to put an extra round into them, or if they don't drop like a stone when hit. :rolleyes:

    It comes down to availability of ammo, ability to choose the right ammo for the job and to put rounds on target.

    Not whether the round in question can translate from killing deer to killing humans.

    JD
     
  18. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    It's funny to think it, but JP is absolutely right. A 22 caliber bullet can pack a whallop. The 69gr. Matchkings that I load up are moving at only, and only is a relative term, at about 2,750FPS and have over 1100fpt., which I am assuming is at 100 yards if you believe the reloading manuals as gospel. I will be shooting through a chrono and doing some math here in the near future to get some more exact numbers.
     
  19. orangello

    orangello New Member

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  20. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    I recall reading a long while back that 5.56 FMJ had a tendency to punch through and thus cause far less damage than a hollow-point or soft-tip which expands and breaks apart quickly. If anyone has ballistics comparisons handy, please post 'em or post a link.