And here comes the inevitable hell.

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Ghost1958, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Minneapolis council members calling to defund police spend $63G on private security details after receiving death threats @ Fox News, 6/27/20.


    ^ Minneapolis City Council pushes hard to "defund" the police agency, then spends $60K+ for armed security to protect City Council members from threats by angered citizens.

    Inevitable is the word.

    Duh.

    There is absolutely a need for effective and capable protection. Any child knows this.

    Yet, these ignorant children in city councilmen's clothing push to eviscerate policing, as though it's a woke game to be played. It has ramifications. In-your-face ramifications. Deadly ramifications.

    Minus the means of withstanding arsonists, looters, robbers and murderers, and holding them accountable, Minneapolis is going to devolve into a literal sewer. As will we all, if we accept this drivel.

    Heavily review and revamp, where appropriate. Smart. Double-up on the oversight, guards and protections against abusive opportunities. Just, and necessary. (ie, Partners, bodycams required, improved training, firmer standards on when physical force is allowable, vastly stiffer accountability for improper use of force, improved "community" policing efforts, etc.)

    But, "defund" at our peril. Lest the inevitable Hell follow on its heels.


    Arm-up. And keep yer powder dry. The wokesters aren't going to let this crap die easily.
     
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  2. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I went to the site of the battle for Uppersville yesterday, the place where Johnny reb held back the union for a time. There were plaques to read and a bridge made in 1810. I really should remember more, I was a little busy staring at something else I guess :) 20200627_173142.jpeg


    Edit: Oops, wrong thread
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  3. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, on a personal level I dont care if police are defunded, or abolished all together or left as is. Police have no bearing on my life as I'm not a criminal and I do not depend on them for my safety.

    I do think they are over militarized and that qualified immunity needs to go.

    That said, the folks speaking against defunding or abolishing are using the wrong arguments as to why police are needed.
    They are using arguments like the ones below.

    1. Who will you call in a home invasion.?
    Bad argument . In the great majority of home invasions the police arrive well after the invasion has been accomplished and either the home owner has delt with it or become a victim. Not thecfault of police . Just a logistical fact of time and distance.

    2. When someone sticks a gun in your face who are you going to call?
    Calling police once a thug has you at gun point isnt going to happen and they couldn't get there in time to help even if one could call.

    I get the rationale behind using those two main arguments that we keep reading and hearing . Appeal to the public's fear of criminals attacking them. But those arguments fall flat in the face of reality.
    Police dont " protect". They have no ability to protect. Almost everything they do is after the fact. Again a result of time and distance.

    Police perform many needed functions. Tracking down and arresting murderers rapists etc.
    Recovering stolen items. Vehicle accidents , And other such tasks .

    All that is really needed to fix the issue with policing can be accomplished by removing 4 things.
    Remove Qualified Immunity so that individual officers can be held accountable and sued for their actions. That alone will put a stop to many cases of excess force by police.
    Abolish police unions and FOP or at least limit their contracts to negotiating salary and nothing else so they cannot circle the wagons to protect bad actors .
    Abolish civil forfeiture.

    Abolish no knock warrants.

    Just abolishing those 4 things would go a long way to curbing the problems with policing .

    But no we dont need to nor should we defund or dismantle police.

    Even though there was a time there were no police forces as we know them and the nation functioned quite well without them, the public now by and large has no stomach for protecting themselves and need the false security blanket the thought of police " protecting " them provides.
     
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  4. JustMyThoughts

    JustMyThoughts New Member

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    Couldn’t agree more. Having been the victim of an assault, when the police showed up they were asking me questions as if I had committed the crime. Just to say that their job Is to protect and serve, but it’s seems like they are always just there arrest and gather evidence.
     
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  5. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Arrest and Gather" on the side of a police cruiser
    just doesn't have the same appeal, does it!:)

    ellis
     
  6. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    There is constant drug activity across the street. I reported it a few years ago. It's still going on. So much for the drug task force. :mad:
     
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  7. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I wonder if a lot of homeowners ins policies will be cancelled or if the premiums will skyrocket in an area with no law enforcement.
     
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  8. formerCav

    formerCav Well-Known Member

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    of course they will !!

    just like your auto ins if you move to a crummy place, the rate goes UP!
     
  9. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it. Proximity to fire dept will affect insurance premiums. Never heard of a question concerning LE even being asked.
     
  10. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say, though, for urban centers. After all, auto/driving policies go up in rougher areas, as the incidence of crashes, damage and theft goes up. I'd think in a spot where already the crime rates are moderate to bad, the moment there's vastly less chance of patrols being around then the insurance actuaries would recognize the risk of the baddies coming out of their holes would increase.

    It'll be whatever it is, if it comes to that. And, sure as sunshine, many will finally, at long last, begin to take some personal responsibility for their personal security. That'll be nice.

    An armed society is at least a more-polite society. Once the baddies get the memo folks won't screw around any longer, "hard" though that might seem to them. ("Country" has long been that way, in many parts.)
     
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  11. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Very true, but it really has never been an issue like this before. Can the county sherriff handle the increase the city will demand?

    This can't be good for property values either.
     
  12. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    The animals destroy their own neighborhoods. Trump was right, sometimes it's best to sit back and watch. They don't go where the deplorables live, incidentally.
     
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  13. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Just another day in Chicago, though. Several kids were standing in line to make a purchase at a local shop. Ahead of them was a very tall guy. The guy seemed offended when one of the kids asked "How tall are you? I hope to be that tall, someday." At which point, the guy pulled a sidearm and blew away two of the kids (who died of their injuries); a third kid escaped. One of more than 100 shot on Father's Day weekend. All caught on surveillance vids, and the perp was identified by locals. Caught and arrested.

    Man held without bail for allegedly gunning down two teenage boys @ Chicago Sun-Times, 6/26/20.

    "The inevitable Hell" ... daily, in Chicago. Having nothing whatsoever to do with monuments, or protests over lives mattering, or anything other than some people are just crazy suckers.

    Same ol', same ol'.
     
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  14. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Police ‘Reform’ and the Making of a Racism Narrative @ National Review, 6/27/20.

    A decent opinion piece about the "endemic racism in policing" narrative playing out in the media across the country, with questions about its validity using examples of recent cases. A good questioning of the whole thing, urging everyone (prosecutors, city councils, John Q. Public) to push for all the facts and circumstances in individual cases when evaluating claims of "racism" or anything else.

    One statement from the article: "These days, alas, mere happenstance is enough to tear this nation asunder." Rings pretty true.
     
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  15. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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    29 Jun 2020 Fayetteville NC...
    A man who tried to break into a Fayetteville apartment early Monday was shot and killed a few blocks down the road, police said.

    Officers responded at about 6:15 a.m. to a reported break-in at an apartment in the 1000 block of Cain Road.

    Investigators said an apartment resident called 911 while someone was trying to get inside. Another resident shot at the intruder.

    "While the 911 taker was still gathering information, one shot was heard and a female screaming," Fayetteville police spokesman Michael Bohannon said.

    According to police, the intruder fled the scene, and the armed resident followed him to the intersection of Cain Road and Rogers Drive. A fight occurred, and more gunshots were fired.

    The suspected intruder was shot multiple times and taken to Cape Fear Valley Medical Center, where he died. Police identified him as 40-year-old Cordell Spruill, who lived next door to the man who shot him.

    Police said there were at least seven people inside the home when Spruill tried to break through the back door.

    Neighbors said the shooting stemmed from an ongoing conflict between Spruill and his neighbors.

    "It wasn't a burglar, you know. This guy has been terrorizing a couple of the neighbors here," neighbor Mark Irvin said, citing damage to cars and other property.
    https://www.wral.com/fayetteville-resident-chases-down-fatally-shoots-suspected-intruder/19166238/

    So the vigilante mentality begins...
     
  16. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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    call your local newspeek media...that gets everyone’s undivided attention...
     
  17. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Here is an interesting twist on the RKBA, in this era of riotous mob behavior.


    Long guns confiscated by SWAT after men found atop downtown Louisville parking garage during protests @ WDRB News (Louisville KY), 6/30/20.

    Hard to imagine by what legal standard their arms were taken based on requirement for instantaneous ownership proofs being provided.

    Of course, then there's the question of what motivated a couple of rifle-carrying folks to set up shop on top of city parking garages. Or how they thought that'd be justified. (Not quite like the "Koreatown" shop vendors and residents taking up positions on their roofs to dissuade the riotous mob, in Los Angeles, in the early-1990s, which were their own properties and homes.)

    All sorts of interesting things are coming down the pike.

    Keep yer powder dry.
     
  18. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ^^dumbasses^^
     
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  19. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    There is no law in ky that those men's rifles could have been legally taken .

    Carrying a long gun is perfectly legal and even if the parking garages had no gun signs the OWNER or manager of those garages would have had to verbally tell the men to leave before cops could legally do squat in this state.

    And there is no law that requires a person with a gun to "prove ownership".

    Of course it is Louisville metro PD we are talking about here. They have a long history of making up statute as they wish .
     
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  20. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    ^ That was my concern.

    Of course, beyond the RKBA-related laws on the books, we don't know which of the myriad statutes they're ostensibly relying upon to justify the taking (even if temporary).

    Fact is, though, if someone's got a tire pump and there's no proof of ownership, there's little justification to officially take that pump from a person until proof can be given. Likewise, the state handles firearms much the same way. It's just another product someone can own, and face-to-face transactions unbeknownst to officialdom occur all the time, without proofs of ownership.

    In this case of "official" taking, they must be relying on one of two things: (a) they're blowing it out their rears, when claiming they took it awaiting proofs of ownership; or (b) they're basing it on the "terroristic threatening" type statutes that would cover a myriad of potential acts seemingly threatening to the public, such as setting up shop on top of a building overlooking public areas. It'll be interesting to see what they say, officially, and whether these folks who got their property taken lawyer-up.