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Discussion Starter #1
2 years ago I bought around 40 .380 rounds from a retired police officer that does reloading,these casings are made from alluminum(silver) and the hollow in the hollow point of the round is deep and wider than most personal protection .380 rounds I've seen and filled with wax.The retired officer would not tell me anything about the rounds he made except this,"He said you can not buy a better .380 protection round than these rounds I made,I'm not saying anymore on these rounds ,except 1 round will put an attacker down-I Gurantee it" he always has a slight grin on his face,anyone have a clue what he may have done,he assured me it would not hurt my pistol ,I've test fired a couple over the last 2 years and they seem to shoot like the target rounds do ?You should see what this round does to a gallon milk carton filled with water-Blows it in half at 50'.
 

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"Tongue in cheek"

Go out and find an attacker and try it!:D

Now reality!

How can anyone make that kind of guarantee? They can't.

Pick up some different types of ammo, and using a clothed dummy for a target, then test the ammo. Try have have a method that you can recover the bullet.

Or, use ballistic gel.
 

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I dunno, man...

Pick up some different types of ammo, and using a clothed dummy for a target, then test the ammo. Try have have a method that you can recover the bullet.

Or, use ballistic gel.


If he only has 40 rounds, it's probably not worth the effort.

Might be interesting to pull the bullet from one round and examine it, though. Weigh the powder charge and try to figure out what kind of powder it is; melt out the wax and weigh the bullet, and try to see how it was made.

Personally, I wouldn't use it. +P ammo in an aluminum case sounds like a bad idea--and the wax tips would quickly gum up my magazine in a Texas August.

Plus, I can just see myself trying to explain thuse rounds in my court case: "Well, uh, this guy gave them to me, see, and he said they were really powerful..."

Massad Ayoob is right; if you haven't thought about the INEVITABLE aftermath of even a CLEAN, LEGAL and CLEARLY UNAVOIDABLE shooting, you're not ready for armed self-defense. The real world's not like "Matlock"; it's more like Mike Nifong and the O.J. trial. Injustice is everywhere, and there are plenty of prosecutors and DAs eager to stick it to armed citizens for political brownie points. Don't help them do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
2 years ago I bought around 40 .380 rounds from a retired police officer that does reloading,these casings are made from alluminum(silver) and the hollow in the hollow point of the round is deep and wider than most personal protection .380 rounds I've seen and filled with wax.The retired officer would not tell me anything about the rounds he made except this,"He said you can not buy a better .380 protection round than these rounds I made,I'm not saying anymore on these rounds ,except 1 round will put an attacker down-I Gurantee it" he always has a slight grin on his face,anyone have a clue what he may have done,he assured me it would not hurt my pistol ,I've test fired a couple over the last 2 years and they seem to shoot like the target rounds do ?You should see what this round does to a gallon milk carton filled with water-Blows it in half at 50'.
I should of also said when I blew the Milk Jugs in half several times using my home-made rounds,I also used Winchester 95 grain personal protection,Magtech 95 grain personal protection,and Federal 90 grain hrdra-shk and none of them rounds would blow the jug in half only a hole about size of a quarter to half dollar,my home made rounds will blow in half,does anyone have a clue on what technique or material could do what these home made rounds do!Guys with me shooting are also in disbelief seeing a .380 round do that much damage ,when their .357 ,and .40 couldn't do as much damage-Just curious,I have around 26 or 27 rounds left!
 

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I would assume the wax was put there to keep the hollow point from filling w/clothing that may minimize the expantion of ther hollowpoint. Kinda like Pow'r-ball ammo. still...380 is.380..No such thing as a garunteed knockdown.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I would assume the wax was put there to keep the hollow point from filling w/clothing that may minimize the expantion of ther hollowpoint. Kinda like Pow'r-ball ammo. still...380 is.380..No such thing as a garunteed knockdown.
I agree no garuntee knock down ,I got a friend I served 12 years in Army and he has been a cop for 16 years now and I've heard his stories of unloading his Glock on a subject before the person fell and I've heard the stories of a .22 short in a Derringer killing someone in a homocide,I do garuntee that these .380 rounds I have are the most powerful and destructive rounds I have fired to this date !
 

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I agree no garuntee knock down ,I got a friend I served 12 years in Army and he has been a cop for 16 years now and I've heard his stories of unloading his Glock on a subject before the person fell and I've heard the stories of a .22 short in a Derringer killing someone in a homocide,I do garuntee that these .380 rounds I have are the most powerful and destructive rounds I have fired to this date !
You must remember that there are only 3 guarantees in life---------

Birth,

Death, and

Taxes.

No one can make that type of guarantee, not even the manufacturers. They can only report what happened under certain conditions.
 

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I do garuntee that these .380 rounds I have are the most powerful and destructive rounds I have fired to this date !
Im not sure how you could say ANY .380 is THE most destructive round you have ever fired unless you havent fired much of anything besides the .380. I read in another thread where you said you were Military or LEO, forgot which one, but if that is the case and you have expirience w/many different guns and calibres I just dont see how you can make that claim. Especially if you have shot Rifles, shotguns, Magnums....or even +p+ ronds of 9mm.:confused:
 

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I'm wondering if wax is all that's in those hollowpoints. They behave more like exploding bullets than anything else. That wax might be covering a primer and a small charge of Red Dot, to hold them in place. Have you checked?
 
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Ammo

You must first survive the encounter. Good quality hollow points will do a good job (repeat as necessary). Never count on a one shot stop, I would not count on a one magazine stop.

You must then survive the inquisition that will follow. Many prosecutors will try to vilify you and your home brew ammo. In civil court you will be screwed if you used non factory ammo. They will stack the (jury) deck against you and paint the shootee as an misunderstood angel. I hope you have ALOT of insurance.

I would NEVER carry handloads for defense.
 

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You can only put just so many grains of powder in a case,and the bullet can only weigh so many grains. I'm not sure of what they are right now,I'd have to check my reloading manuals. A alluminum case? CCI has em and they are not reloadable. Sounds like the magic bullet. But if it works....
 

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very well put

You must first survive the encounter. Good quality hollow points will do a good job (repeat as necessary). Never count on a one shot stop, I would not count on a one magazine stop.

You must then survive the inquisition that will follow. Many prosecutors will try to vilify you and your home brew ammo. In civil court you will be screwed if you used non factory ammo. They will stack the (jury) deck against you and paint the shootee as an misunderstood angel. I hope you have ALOT of insurance.

I would NEVER carry handloads for defense.
Yeah--what HE said...
 

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It these handloads are that much more explosive than other commercial HP loads, then I'd say someting's a little fishy. I'm not sure how your retired LEO buddy built 'em, but I wouldn't trust them for anything more than executing milk jugs.

For decent .380 loads I'd suggest a look at Speer Gold Dots and CorBon DPX. They'll both provide about all you can expect from a .380----------which includes penetration.
 

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Also, are you sure they are not Nickle plated Brass?

There are several very good loadings for .380, and I have reloaded some to make some practice rounds.

-Bidah
 

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Hmmm... Sounds like a pretty frangible situation, if not something more exotic. Heck, put on your face shield and gloves and dig that wax out of there. Let us know what ya find. Might just be some birdshot in an enlarged cavity. Or maybe a rabid coon stuffed in there.
 

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Sounds a lot like Glaser <--- (may not be spelled right) safety slugs, possible home made ones. Or frangible rounds.

I carry factory ball ammo for my 9mm and .45 auto for protection and home defense. Reliability and penetration is important, as apposed to potential damage.

A study done buy the F.B.I. study group indicated that Hollow points in hand guns are ok but expansion may not be to there full potential as with hollow points fired from a rifle and depending on weather hollow points may not penetrate as deep of the target is wearing lot of clothing to keep warm. This is why they use ball ammo for reliability of penetration instead of high damage output.
 

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You might want to check with local lawers. From what I've read in reliable sources that prosecutors often present to grand juries that reloads are "cop killer bullets". I stick with factory loads in my edc.
 

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Here are twp good rules of thumb that have kept me out of trouble for 50+ years od re;loading.

Rule 1 Use FACTORY loaded ammo for self defense.

Rule 2 don't shoot reloads unless you reloaded them yourself.

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but after 50 years of reloading, I still have all ten fingers, both hands and both eyes.:)
 

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You might want to check with local lawers. From what I've read in reliable sources that prosecutors often present to grand juries that reloads are "cop killer bullets". I stick with factory loads in my edc.
i believe that to be more of myth than fact unless you have proof that shows that to be the case.

here are some observations on my part about self defense shootings, guns and ammo.

one, or two reasons for a person to be sitting in court facing a prosecutor, a judge and a jury if they were involved in self defense shooting. one, they didn't believe your story and it didn't align with the statements and the evidence they recovered, and it smelled fishy. first the cops didn't believe your story, and then the prosecutor didn't believe your story, then grand jury didn't believe your story, and now you're sitting in court, and guess what, it's unlikely the judge and the jury are going to believe your story either! you better looking for good plea bargain and take the deal if they offer it to you.

second reason, is you probably live in very restrictive state or city with huge gun control laws and measures that hinder law abiding citizens with guns and using guns for self defense. so it's quite possible the prosecutor could be very much anto-gun, an will be very biased against you for using a gun self defense. and it's very possible if you used reloads, he's going to portray you as blood thirsty killer. it's also highly likely he's going to go for a jury that feels the same as he does, or as close as possible, and very possible the judge as well. you were screwed from the get go in deciding to use a gun for self defense.

now, in a righteous shooting, so far that i have seen, and no one has yet to show anything that contradicts it, in all the years i have posed that someone show me proof of actual court cases where the choice in type of ammo, or the firearm used was deciding factor in determining guilt or innocence in a trial. if you feel like proving me wrong on these points, then please do. now in civil trial, if person beat the criminal trial, and they allow a civil trial to take place, the burden of proof is much different, and it's possible that the type of ammo, or the firearm could be deciding factors in the judgement handed down.
 
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