Ammo load for protection?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by jps37033, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. jps37033

    jps37033 New Member

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    I am curious to know if I am the only person that staggers the ammo my mags in my handgun for protection?

    I use 147gr JHP's, 115 gr FMJ, and 124gr JHP's. I do JHP then FMJ and so on.

    I do this in case the JHP's are not penetrating due to heavy clothing or such.

    Does anyone else do this?
     
  2. Flint Rock

    Flint Rock New Member

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    I know some people do as you do, but I don't. I want every round in my handgun to perform just like the one before and after it. That's true if I'm carrying a .32acp, 9mm, 45 acp, or a 500 S&W.
    In my tactical shotgun I do stagger the rounds though. Buckshot and slugs, but that's because I may be dealing with a goblin that is trying to hide behind a car door:eek:.
     

  3. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    .45 ACP;
    I like Corbon Pow`RBall +P, 165 GR, 1225 fps and use them as my double-tap in my carry mag. Fast and proven to penetrate windshields and will pass through auto side glass with little expansion. The remainder of the mag feeds seven Hornady TAP Personal Defense +P 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow Points. I’m comfortable with this set-up.

    45+P165.jpg

    GAnewammo_011305D.jpg
     
  4. RED

    RED New Member

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    According to a gun lawyer

    There is an attorney in KC MO that specializes in firearm and CCW cases. He strongly recommends that all your CCW rounds not only should be the same, but they should also be from the same BOX. Not only that, you should leave 4 - 6 rounds in the box and securely store the extras along with the sales receipt in your gun safe. Additionally you should never, ever, carry reloads. When the bad guy comes along and you are forced to use your safety device (never call it a "gun, piece, rod, gat, bullet launcher, or any such), your life is going to become very complicated, very quickly, and you will need every grain of evidence to be used for your defense.

    This lawyer guy is for real and should, I believe, be listened to seriously. Those extra rounds in the safe can be used to aid in your defense to help recreate the exact details of the event and to demonstrate that you were forced to act in self defense.

    If you need his name and phone # send me a PM.
     
  5. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    Why?

    If ou can prove AOJ(ability,opportunity,jeopardy) then everthing else is irrelevant. If ou can't prove AOJ, you shouldn't have shot!
     
  6. jps37033

    jps37033 New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I do see how it all is great tactics as I have heard that if you carry to protect yourself, you should also have an attorney already "on speed dial". Its good to have legal counsel when needed, but....

    If I fill my mag with all of one type of ammo that does not do its job (or might not (penetration, expansion, etc), I might not be around to testify that I chose to stagger my mag for safety and to ensure that i cover all bases.

    I think it also has a lot to do with where you live, your background, and what situation transpires that causes you to have to draw on someone (which you have no control over). I do control two of those; where I live (in the country), and my background (a good reputation with no blemishes). So, if SHTF out here, i have no worries of the police out here saying that s***head shouldnt have messed with you, and if it happens elsewhere, I will rely on my background, reputation, and attorney (and my staggered mag to ensure there is only one to testify). But thats just me......
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2009
  7. Flint Rock

    Flint Rock New Member

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    I would be interested to read a documented case of having staggered rounds in a handgun having a vital or needed benefit. I can see a benefit in some military and tactical situations using long guns (i.e., AP, ball, incendiary), but in a civilian defensive situation I have never read of a documented need for staggered rounds. I am more of the opinion that this "need" is more urban legend than fact.
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i carry 230grn FMJ worked well on german, japanese, korean, vietnamese, and iraqi soldiers over the last 100 years. im not gonna buck tradition. my shotgun is 12ga buckshot. my SR556 has 3 magazines of 55grn FMJ ready to go.

    the thing that worries me isnt the finding of evidence of right of self protection and my use of lethal force as i am not going to fire on someone unless that threat exists. its the personal lawsuits afterwards as the criminal's relatives sue trying to punish me for not letting a slimeball take my life.
     
  9. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If you don't trust the 147 JHP, why do you carry it at all? If you do not trust the 115 FMJ, why do you carry it at all?

    Find a load that does most things well. For me in 9mm that is the Gold Dot 124 gr. +p. In .40 that is the Gold Dot 180 gr. In the .45 it is the Gold Dot 230 gr. in the 10mm that is the Double Tap 180 gr Gold Dot. Sensing a pattern here?

    If you anticipate dealing with a heavily clothed (winter) or heavy bodied person and you are not sure a ___ load in 9mm will be sufficient, carry a larger caliber or practice until you are deadly accurate.

    Bullets don't stop bad guys, well placed bullets stop bad guys.
     
  10. RCHanlin

    RCHanlin New Member

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    What he said... ;) I've got Black Talons in my 1911 home defense mags. I understand we no longer live in the Wild West but any SOB comes into my house uninvited is a dead SOB.
     
  11. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    So if your neighbor a block over comes home late after a drunk night and doesn't realize where he is??? Careful with your words, they may come back to bite you.
     
  12. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    I alternate between 230 gr. Hydrashocks and 230 gr. ball for the same reason you do. I like the quick expansion of the hollow points, but use the ball in case I've got to deal with window glass or heavy clothing.

    It isn't uncommon for home invaders to wear vests with trauma plates in them around here. The ball will carry more energy through the trauma plate and into the sternum than the rapidly expanding hollow points will.

    During the sweltering summers here, I drive with my windows rolled up and the AC on max. I'd like to be able to punch through the window glass and into a carjacker as hard as possible, which necessitates ball ammo, but again, I like to have the rapidly expanding hollow points when necessary.

    When I'm in the woods, I may be faced with a large, thick skinned boar, or a meth cook may be the threat. Again, a mix mix of ball and hollow point ammo suits the possible situations well.

    It doesn't matter what ammo you run and it doesn't matter if they're of mixed types. You have to ensure that the shot you take is the same shot that any prudent, well trained individual would take in the same situation. You can only be sent to prison if it wasn't a legally defensible shot.
     
  13. RCHanlin

    RCHanlin New Member

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    If that neighbor where stupid enough and was drunk enough to not realize that his key did not work in my door and still broke into my house when I and my family are asleep then he deserves to die! Drunks and addicts can be very unpreditable. You may think you have them calm while you are on the phone dialing 911 but then find yourself fighting over your weapon cause that person suddenly got squirley.

    I refuse to be victim in my own home or anywhere else. Both Florida and Georgia passed laws preventing folks from being victims
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  14. UnderFire

    UnderFire New Member

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    Many states have a castle doctrine that allows you to defend your home, but doesn't justify shooting someone for just being in your home. Holding a home intruder until police arrive is the right thing to do, unless the threat level escalates.
    I know in talk we try to express how "bad" we are, but to take one's life is a feeling most don't have or understand. Just imagine having to live next to that neighbor's wife & children and the guilt that there's no father in that household because you were over zealous.
    In the scenario that Goju describes, it would be better to help the neighbor home, I really doubt he "deserves to die" because he mistakenly broke into your home. I would have him pay for the damages of breaking into your home.
     
  15. RCHanlin

    RCHanlin New Member

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    By your response, you assume that I would know this person. Listen, I'm not trying to come off as some sort of Billy Bad *** here. This country is in the sorta fix it's in cause eveyone is sitting around singing Kumbaya and trying to be politically correct all the time. Perhaps Christ said to offer the other cheek but this fella (me) is not gonna do that.

    While you are certainlly entitled to your own opinions on this matter, I just happen not to share them.


    Cheers
     
  16. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    You misunderstand Jesus my firend....but that's another topic.

    I understand your opinion, but this is not just about opinions. In my state(and most states) I have to have good reason to shoot someone even in my own home. I not only HAVE to I WANT to. God forbid I shoot some drunk idiot or high kid who entered my house uninvited because he thought it was his house and he couldn't get his key to work, it has happened in my state. You may think they "derserve to die", the state may very well disagree with you and may decide you deserve to spend some isolated time thinking about it. :rolleyes:

    I won't shoot someone just for coming into my house uninvited, they must be a vital threat. They better make some sort of threat, either physical or verbal. I am prepared to defend my family, but not eager to take a life.
     
  17. RCHanlin

    RCHanlin New Member

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    I'm tired of this banter. It is not accomplishing anything. I will no more be able to convince you or your partner (underfire) than you will me in this matter.

    Cheers
     
  18. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed. Great post and well stated for truth Matt. :)

    I too, follow the same mix and adhere to the same rule of thought, as well.

    Jack
     
  19. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    Why don't ya' cry about it!! Saddlebags!!! :D

    Sorry, the thread was derailed (partly because of me).

    RC,

    You don't have to convince me or "my partner" about anything. You will have to convince a jury that your shooting of an intruder was justified even though he made no threats.....good luck with that.

    Underfire and I have had conversations before and we don't always agree nor do we have a partnership. I don't consider discussions of personal safety or legal issues "banter."
     
  20. UnderFire

    UnderFire New Member

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    It doesn't matter if you know him or not. You missed my point altogether, it doesn't surprise me- honestly. Try to explain a dead man in your house with no weapon. :rolleyes:
    Oh boy, I can tell you don't know me. Some of the older members/mods know how I feel on certain topics about this country & being politically correct.
    +2 on misunderstanding Jesus, if the Ol' English, King James version is too hard to understand get a modern version.
    You need to get a brief understanding about gun laws, castle doctrine, etc before you mistakenly commit a crime. Ignorance is no excuse for the law.