Amish Girl Killed In Freak Accident

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by Vikingdad, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    No. Its just how morons do it.
     

  3. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    Something just doesn't pass the "smell test". I am really having a problem with a muzzle loading gun that can spew a bullet 1.5 miles let alone still have enough energy to do much harm. This guy just matched the world record sniper shot with a muzzle loader and with a head shot at a moving target. If this really did happen that way... that is a true "freak" accident.
     
  4. Jeepergeo

    Jeepergeo New Member

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    Know your backstop and what's beyond it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. The guy with the black powder firearm broke some basic rules...the child is dead and this guy will live with that for the rest of his life.

    There's just no room for breaking the basic safety rules, and as we can see in this case, the cost of breaking the rules can be enormous. I can't imagine the pain the child's family is experiencing.
     
  5. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    You haven't been around smoke poles much then. They were making 1000 yard kill shots during the Civil War with 65 grains of powder and a 500 grain minie. This guy was probably using a modern contraption with 150 grains of powder and a 300 grain bullet. I doubt he would have made the hit had he been trying to, that's where the freak accident comes in. The girl is dead and that's the sad part. It could have been avoided had he just fired into the ground.
     
  6. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    Shooting firearm into the air does have consequences, unfortunately.
     
  7. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    Hawg, 1000 yard kill shots with a mini is a bunch of spunk! If a 1000 guys aimed at the moon in the general direction of 1000 other guys and all shot at once... maybe someone would get hurt. I've been shooting bp for over 30 years and a mile and a half, I don't think so. I bet there will be more to come out of this, but none the less it is tragic.
     
  8. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    When I was a kid,our neighbor was "cleaning"his gun and it somehow went off and the bullet traveled about 100 yards and hit our house exactly where my head rests at night.I don't remember the circumstances or the caliber,but it was a deer rifle.The lucky thing is that we weren't home at the time and the amazing thing was that the bullet hit at just the right angle that it went into the siding and ricochet'd out of the siding about 6" away from the entrance hole.The house is only siding and like 3/4" plywood so I don't know how the bullet managed to not get inside the house.
     
  9. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    One thing i'd like to add to some people's opinion that a falling bullet don't have enough energy to kill someone,that they need to have a better understanding of science.Like,a .22 bullet falling onto even someone's head may not kill them,but reguardless of the caliber,all falling bullets travel at the same terminal velocity(about 150mph),so a miniball or shotgun slug coming down out of the sky has 10X's the energy of a falling .22,and that my friend will kill ya.
     
  10. Wilder

    Wilder New Member

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    It's called volley fire, and it comes from the days of military archers. The idea is to arc the bullet into an enemy formation at maximum range. You would have a few thousand guys fire at another few thousand guys all standing in a densely packed military formation. If 1% of the shots hit the formation you had a compounding effect on the enemy morale. Most old military rifles like the mauser have iron sights set up for out to 2,000 yds/m. A ridiculous range for the rifle and sight combo when you think of accurate fire. When you think like a military commander who remembers going to war with bows and arrows it makes sense. Start scratching at their morale as early as you can. Remember their targets at that range covered at least several hundred square yds. Think indirect fire at a hillside.
     
  11. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    I agree! Only a moron would shoot a rifle in the air just to clear the barrel of a round to clean a weapon! :rolleyes: God bless the little girls family! I realize the Amish believe things happen for a reason and a part of God's plan but still despite that they grieve like most of us. We have a lot of Amish here in Tennessee where I live and they are good people. Anyway back to the point! Unfortunately, it was a freak accident for sure. And I do believe that a modern muzzle loader with the modern powders and bullets could possibly travel a mile and a half. Taking into the consideration of the force of a falling round from a significant angle. The reason that I am basing my comment on is on the Sandy Hook Test that was conducted way back in 1879. The test done by Springfield Armory (Original Springfield Armory on the East Coast) on the 45-70 rifle caliber with the test being conducted by Mr. R T Hare of Springfield. Since a lot of the new muzzle loaders using the new powders and ammunition have a better ballistics factor than the old original 45-70 rounds mentioned I believe even though a freak accident it could have happened regarding the Amish girl. R T Hare fired the 45-70 Rifle with elevation at a 6ft. Target at 2500 yards. Hitting the target! Believe it or not his farthest hit ever accomplished by him with the 45-70 was 3200 Yards. Bottom line is he could do this with the older 45-70 which was loaded a lot lighter than some of our modern day 45-70 ammunition and the fact that some muzzle loader ammunition combinations are hotter than the original 45-70 loads of the time. Unfortunately it is possible! But the guy is still an idiot for shooting in the air to clear a weapon. Our hearts still go out to the family for the unnecessary loss of their daughter.


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  12. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    I would like to redirect the thread to my original question. Is this "common practice" as has been said in some reports to fire a muzzle-loader BP rifle by firing it into the air?
     
  13. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Vikingdad,

    It is very simple! NO it is not. If firing to unload, it certainly should be done by firing it into the ground! Not the air! Or without the cap depending on the bullet used the bullet can be removed with the use of a remover on the tip of the rod and then the powder can be removed. Personally I would just shoot it into the ground at a safe location.

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  14. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    As much as I hate to say this the hole thing might have just been fate, the chances of the round traveling that far without hitting something else then hitting another person in the head while moving is one in a million. While tragic maybe god has other plans for her... I agree out of all the places that he could have fired his rifle he should have fired it into the ground, or even gone about other methods of unloading it.

    I'm a guy that believes everything happens for a reason while we may not know it it's done for a reason. May she rest in peace and god have mercy on her soul.
     
  15. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    Read some history drduck.
     
  16. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Possible? Of course. One in a quadrillion shot randomly at a moving taret that far away. Fate, for sure. Will a bullet kill at that range? Easily. Gravity pulls it to the ground the same on the way up as on the way down. Terminal velocity of 120mph? That is a falling human body. A bullet will easily exceed that velocity especially if it has any spin left to it to keep it nose forward.
     
  17. Jay

    Jay New Member

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  18. Jeepergeo

    Jeepergeo New Member

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    This is absolutely NOT a practice by RESPONSIBLE firearm owners.
     
  19. m72law

    m72law New Member

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    its a shame that this little girl paid for some morons bad decision with her life:mad:

    i seen an episode on mythbusters about bullets fired into the air. what i remember was that if the muzzle of the gun your firing into the air,isnt exactly 90 deg. straight up,the bullet keeps its spin & will kill! but if the bullet is just free falling,it want kill,just hurt like hell.i think they had said the bullet dead falling to earth was like around 60mph?
     
  20. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    Not saying it couldn't happen... but I don't think so. I really think there is going to be more on this before it is closed. Hawg, your comment about me reading history... do you know what the bullet drop is for a .58 loaded with a 480 grain mini and 60 grains of ffg is/was at 500 yards with the gun zero at 100? Over 500 inches! That's more then a 40 foot drop in just 500 yards! What do you think it is/was at 1000 yards! 1000 yard kill shots during the civil war were an accident. Some records indicate that there were over 150 shots fired for every one battle field casualty. If you sling enough lead around, sooner or later someone will get hurt.
    I wonder if anyone ever could make a consistent 1000 yard shot with open sights using any gun.