American Prison

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by MobileMarine, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. MobileMarine

    MobileMarine New Member

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    Lets get some thoughts on our fine prison and rehabiltation systems we have here in the good ole U S of A .
    Gotta wonder what the return rate is in say ... Iran or south america , hell did anyone see the the show on NatGeo on Russias toughest prisons ?
    Them guys were blindfolded when they went outside and HAD to say yes/no SIR.
    No gangs , No insubordination , No talking , No tv and you know what ? The warden said they had zero complaints from the prisoners !
    I think if we as americans would get the sand out of our no-no spot and grow a pair , stop worrying over what the bad guy might think of us , maybe they could be reformed ?
    And for those who have gone off the deep end just execute them ... So effing what if they might feel pain while we are killing them ? Sue us ! Oh wait your dead buddy .
    Whats a round of .223 going for ? 10 ft of rope ? Angry mob ? Hell Casey Anthony can save us the money of burying them too .
    Lke the guy in california trying for parole after he killed 25 people back int he 70's , why is that f-er even still alive ?
    I forget the country but it is somewhat lawful for the victims family to practice the whole eye for and eye saying , You killed my _____ I get to kill you . Done deal , no taxes spent .

    I will try to find a link to the show about russian prisons
     
  2. MobileMarine

    MobileMarine New Member

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    [ame]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkd4xy_russia-s-toughest-prisons-documentary-2011_shortfilms[/ame]
     

  3. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    yeah, prolly best to NOT get me started on Club Fed.

    Especially coming into heating season here in the upper mid west.

    I often think it might be a good way to go! Free meals i dont have to cook, free Heat, free A/C, free cable, free gym membership.

    The only downside i see is it curtailing my trout fishing and deer hunting.:rolleyes:
     
  4. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I do think there are some people in prison in part because they lack the skills to make a living any way that is legal. They need some job training; at Parchman prison in MS, they teach them agriculture and welding and automotive repair (servicing the public as well as state vehicles). I have a FINE little grill from Parchman's welding shop (welds like a stack of nickles), and i have it on good authority (former inmate) that the welding shop is much preferred to the farming, MUCH.

    There are some who probably can't ever be made safe to roam free, and those should, at the very least, be offered the option of a quick death rather than a long sentence that probably won't do them any good and will certainly be expensive for the taxpayers (maybe a nice headstone as an incentive?). The sexual predators should have an option for some kind of sterilization to shorten their sentence; iirc, a convict in maybe Texas actually requested something like that and got it. At some point, the populace probably needs to have a list of offenses that will actually get them put down in short order, just for their information, and to give the truly disturbed a heads-up.

    Then you have the drug-related convicts, some of those are basically just in need of some vocational training and post-release monitoring to set them on the right path. Others need rehab of some sort to get them off of whatever they came in on and will most likely come BACK in on later. Then there are the non-retailing pot people; why waste my tax dollars housing them; hit them in the wallet and with regular drug-testing on a longterm basis on the outside, making room on the inside for people who might present a danger to the public.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  5. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    Drug offenses (non violent/ using type) are a mental health issue and NOT a criminal issue! Waste of time and resources all the way around is the drug war. But thats a different topic for a different thread.
     
  6. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Unfortunately, those people make up a decent percentage of U.S. prisoners. That space could be better used to prevent early-releases of people who haven't yet satisfied some prison shrinks and such.

    I really wish that prisoners with mental health issues weren't released without required regular therapy/monitoring. I wouldn't just hate myself if some were only released to designated areas. Maybe they could cordon off part of Detroit for all of the people with issues requiring controlling medication, putting less of the public at risk. At least the Lions would have some hardcore fans.
     
  7. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I worked in the state prison system for 6 years, on SRT for 3 years. Just as much criminal activity goes on inside the fence as it does on the streets.there are gangs and cliques that seperate themselves from general population and drug are still a big issue. There are school facilities where inmates can acquire their GED or take up a trade in votech. Of course its up to the individual how they use the education.some people just think prison is a big party and ive seen guys discharge and come back within 6 months. some people use their time in prison to learn from their mistakes, discharge and stay out.
     
  8. MobileMarine

    MobileMarine New Member

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    2 words '' BLACK DOLPHIN ''.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Since you worked in the system, i wonder: Do you think requiring completion of educational or vocational training and/or psychotherapy sessions would reduce the rate of returns?
     
  10. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I think the best answer is,it depends on the individual and what their motives are. I worked in a minimum security facility,BUT 90% of the inmates are actually medium security, there is still a fair share of violent incidents that occur,and has quite a few escapes. So even though the facility is classified as minimum security,its far from docile. Its based on a level system, lvl 1 being the worst with the least priviledges and goes to lvl 4 with the most priviledges. When i was there lvl 4 inmates got to house in a seperate building that was apprx. 1/2 mile away with no fence. The vocational and educational programs were required for some inmates and of course it was easier to reach level 4 if you took them.some would do anything that they needed to do in order to reach that level, but they werent doing it for the educational value and was still doing their "dirt". The education facility had almost no security, meaning no officers were posted there on a regular basis. So it was easy for the inmates so slip out long enough to use drugs, tattoo, or fight..and this happened all the time down there. Then you have the inmates that genuinely want the education so they can do the best that they can once they discharge or parole, so they were there everyday that the doors were open "to learn". The inmates that required psyciatric help would be unpredictable, some would stay on their meds and would be fine and some would not. Even alot of the inmates that would stay on their meds would stray off after they discharged because they wouldnt continue therapy after release.so i think even if it was made manditory for "all" of the inmates to participate in these programs, state tax payers would still take a loss in the overall positive turnout from the programs.you can make them take the programs but you cant make them gain anything from them. They have to want the education...for the right reasons.so my direct answer to your question, no i dont think that making the programs manditory would change the return rate
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  11. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    After working in the County Jail for 9 months before going to the streets, I have seen a drastic change in the prison/jail system since 1984. It used to be that jal/prison were unplesant. When one got out, he/she did nt want to go back. Not that it was cruel and unusual, just unplesant. Nowadays, getting locked up is like a vacation from the responsibilities of life. you do not have to go to work to eat/pay the bills, etc. The old lady cannot rag on you about the money situation, you ain't got no money and no job to go to so she cannot expect you to "bring home the bacon".

    IMHO incarceration should be unpleasant. No TV, no gym, no hot showers (only luke warm), just enough heat or A/C to get by, limited commisary, etc. Read, do push ups, mandatory work/school/counseling, single cells (maybe 2 to a cell) for limited socializing, recreation is getting fresh air and jogging in place, basketball with underinflated balls. When you get out, you do not want to go back, it sucked.
     
  12. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    IMO, in today's society, victims have no rights any more, and convicts have too many.
     
  13. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    What if the judge could require not only participation, but achievement in those programs before release or the end of parole supervision? I know some parole situations require the parolee to have regular employment and such, but it might be helpful if any period of unemployment required the parolee to work for the state when not fully employed, maybe picking up trash on roadsides or repainting lines in the public parking areas and such.

    I don't guess it would be legal to require academic or vocational achievement for parole (not early release, regular time release), but i can see how that might motivate some participants to do more than just show up.

    At the end of the day, there will probably always be some inmates whose lives on the outside are so challenging/difficult (at least to them) that incarceration won't seem that bad comparitively. Although, i've talked to more than a few people who have been guests at Parchman prison, and have yet to meet anyone who didn't absolutely hate the place. The work is part of it; one guy i know saw some guy from his "dorm" cut his wrists while picking beans, supposedly to get out of the sun/heat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    part of the problem is the judicial system too. they play let's make a deal and hand out lees than what is fair sometimes. then when the person is is convicted, let's say he gets 10 years, he'll be out in two and a half to three years if he minds his P's and Q's in prison! where is the justice in that? there was a time when a person was convicted, and he got ten years, he did ten years.
     
  15. Dennis845

    Dennis845 New Member

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    Prison should be for the exclusive purpose of punishment, period. I don't want the money I earn confiscated (taxes) and used for the purpose of "rehabilitation", and getting university degrees at tax payer expense.

    Prison derives its name from "penal", meaning punishment. A criminal made a conscience choice to do wrong and requires correction.

    In fact, morally it should not cost us a single dime to incarcerate and build prisons. Prisoners should be forced to earn their keep, secure housing, and fairly compensate their victims and/or families for their crime(s).

    If they didn't grow it, weed it, butcher it, fertilize it and harvest it, they don't eat. If they don't buy it, make it or trade for it, they don't wipe their butt with it!

    This society has evolved into an entitlement society. Hell, they even call welfare an entitlement. Prior to FDR and LBJ, the USA was much more civilized and in control.

    Based upon the above rant, would you guess I was a liberal or Conservative?

    JMHO... Off my soap box now.
     
  16. fmj

    fmj Active Member

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    HEY! I resemble that remark!!

    I am and have been a hardcore DUHtroit Dions fan for over 30 years!!
    (this might 'splain whats wrong with me...:rolleyes:)
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    STOMP - Official Site

    :p :D too suuhn?


    In sentiment, i feel the same way. Nothing would be more satisfying for most of us than to see criminals suffer a punishment for their wrongs. My problem with that is just punishment without some behavior modification and retraining won't always keep a criminal from reoffending after they get released. I am open to alternative methods.

    http://www.mdoc.state.ms.us/division_of_institutions State Prisons.htm
    There is a reason they traditionally call Parchman "the farm". I have heard first hand from some people who have done time there, and everybody agrees it is not fun. I'm sure it isn't anywhere near completely self-sufficient, but i bet they save a lot on the grocery bills.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  18. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    Talking about un-deserved priviledges.One of the things that irked my a** the most was during my time working in the visiting room. They made us conduct visiting on holidays so the inmates could be with their family.so if your normal days off fall on thanksgiving or christmas you have to work and be away from your family so the inmates can be with theirs
     
  19. woody63m

    woody63m New Member

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    I think it should be like this
    Murder you get one year to make all your little appeals then it's a $1.25 hollow point in your face
    Rapist you get one year to make appeals then it's $1.25 hollow point to your face
    Pedophiles you dont get to make appeals they take you out back of the court house after your trial and $1.25 hollow point to your junk then 30 min later another to your face

    Bring back chain gangs for people with long sentences say 6 or more years. Let them Clean this country up. When they have 5 years left on there sentences educate them get them a GED and some kind of vocational training so they will be able to get and maintain a honest living

    Stupid drug offenses hit them in there wallet big and probation with drug testing

    No TV, No central air, No gourmet meals. Oatmeal for breakfast bologna and cheese sandwich for lunch soup and bread for dinner make prison life suck its a punishment for a reason.

    Make them be respectful. Yes sir no sir yes mam no mam if they can't follow the rules throw them in the hole make there life suck so when they get out they will do what's right so they don't go back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    sorry woody, that would be cruel and inhumane treatment, and you know prisoners have more rights than law-abiding, tax paying citizens. what are you thinking, that there should be justice! (huge sarcasm!) but seriously, that's the way the penal system use to work, a man made a mistake, went to prison and worked ike a rented mule from before sun-up to after sun-down. that was the rehabilitation, he didn't want to go back.