America - 'makes you wonder......'

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by tac foley, Jul 5, 2020.

  1. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

    1,060
    2,114
    113
    I'd like to start a new thread about places, occurrences or events that have made you think hard, and maybe even wonder, about the land in which you live - namely North America. Any subject counts here - history, geology, geography, and scientific -ology or 'graphy.

    Two rules only -

    Rule 1. Let's talk about the WORKS of Nature, or of Man, like, fer'instance, the Hoover Dam, or Golden Gate Bridge. Or, a subject dear to my old heart, the coast-to-coast railroad and the meeting at Promontory.

    Rule 2. It must be based on historical and/or known and established scientific facts. Myths and legends and folklore may be included if they are connected to an event/occasion that is known to be within the scientific remit, like, fer'instance, the OA [Orginal American] folklore stories concerning the Mt Mazama eruption, which a local native American legend ascribes to the activities of the old god, Tlall, surely one of the longest folk memories on the planet, as we know it, Jim.

    As a visitor to the Pacific North West only, a part of the USA that has everything that appeals to somebody who lives in a county that makes Nebraska look like Denali National Park, I'll tend to make reference only to those places that I know of, and for sure, there are plenty of them around that part of the continent. My Masters, fer'instance, is in Remote Sensing and Geomorphology, using the Great Floods of the Late Ice ages in Montana as a base, so I might have something to say about that at some time.

    We tend to get complacent about things we see everyday, without thinking overly much about how they happened, or whey they are the way they are, like the netball courts inside a volcano crater in the metro-Portland district.

    By hey, you guys have you own 'wows!', so let's hear from you....
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    25,287
    14,478
    113
    Well, I'll play. Prior to the year Naught, huh? OK.... how about 100 million years ago?

    [​IMG]

    I used to live in Colorado. Once you get past the yuppies that moved there, was a pretty cool place. It always surprised me how there was NO translation from prairie to mountains. It's like drive over the flatland until you bump into the mountains, turn 30 degrees vertical, and start up. This is one of the places where the mountains start- the Hogback right outside Morrison, just northwest of Denver.

    Ever see wet concrete where a dog was wandered down thru, leaving their footprints? Well, this was wet clay that over the millions of years changed from clay into rock. But that was a BIG dog. Yep- those are actual dinosaur footprints. Must not have had leash laws back then.
     
    Caveman Jim, OLD Ron, Viking and 6 others like this.

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    25,287
    14,478
    113
    Don't want to hog the thread, but there is another spot I have seen that is a bit off the beaten path. Lived there for a week.

    [​IMG]
    Trident Glacier Alaska. There are 3 prongs that flow together- hence the name. I was in the Army Mountaineering instructor's course- they dropped us in by helicopter, and we camped on the glacier for a week, learning ice work. It was estimated that the ice at the toes of the glacier was 7 million years old. Our lessons including crevasse work- dropping down into the big cracks, climbing out again. I never knew that REALLY big chunks of ice were the prettiest baby blue color. As the ice slid down the valley at a speed measured in inches per year, it ground the rock to powder.
     
  4. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Well-Known Member Supporter

    1,753
    3,215
    113
    Ok. Tac, you guys got the Loch Ness Lizard. We have Bigfoot (and we have pictures). Both pirctures might be fuzzy, however. We also have some politicians who've been in Washington since the glaciers receded. Dinosaurs left tracks in rocks, politicioans leave slime trails.

    Where I live (Mississippi/Missouri River Basin) evidence of B.C. Human occupation is common,glacial activity so-so, alley-apples (rocks) mostly sedimentary. My farm sits atop a salt formation which is one reason native americans and later settlers roamed here a long time. At 360 feet, my new well is saltier than the ocean. Many caves along rivers and creeks show evidence of pre-historic human occupation. Before that, we were at the bottom of a whole lot of water.
     
  5. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    33,230
    8,566
    113
    Are those prints from your pet dinosaur that got away from you?
     
    Caveman Jim and buckhuntr like this.
  6. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

    8,348
    9,773
    113
    Tac, I'm bummed about the Year 0 thing. That eliminates some amazing things. Stuff like Sunset Crater (1040-1100 AD)
    sunset-crater.jpg
    and adjoining Wupatki, 500 AD
    place_image-image-f102f6b2-4bdc-49a2-945f-8ec4d782957e.jpg
    Two National Monuments that I was fortunate enough work as a ranger at.
    WUPAmap_small.jpg
    But to meet your criteria, I also worked at and got to live in for 5 weeks
    download (8).jpeg
    the Grand Canyon Natl. Park.
    Age estimates from 6 to 70 MY depending on who you believe. What is known to certain extent is the exposed rock dates from 2 BY (Vishnu Schist) to the newest at a mere 230 MY (Kaibab Limestone).
    When I lived out there I could have rattled off all the major formations and most of the sub groups, alas, it's all gone now.
     
    tac foley, alsaqr and c3shooter like this.
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    25,287
    14,478
    113
    Got away HELL! Put him back on his leash!
     
  8. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

    2,100
    2,409
    113
    I lived my youth in Golden, Colorado and we could find trilobites just by digging in the back yard.
     
  9. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

    2,100
    2,409
    113
    My aunt owns an obsidian spear head the size of my hand. I like to think that it was used to slay mammoths and fend off sabre tooth tigers.
     
    boatme98 likes this.
  10. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

    1,003
    534
    113
    upload_2020-7-5_20-46-55.jpeg Hummm...
    Anasazi Puebloans who roamed this continent’s four corners region o/a 12BC who left their dwellings & defensive communities for posterity!

    View attachment 221154

    and while i have walked the earth’s continent(s), i must say visiting & walking these ancestral tribal lands in the four corners regions off & on over the last thirty + years, has brought the most pleasure then any other place i have walked!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    tac foley and boatme98 like this.
  11. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

    2,100
    2,409
    113
    My aunt owns an obsidian spear head the size of my hand. I like to think that it was used to slay mammoths and fend off sabre tooth tigers.
    Its cool
     
  12. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

    2,100
    2,409
    113
    My aunt, the one with the spearhead is a great-grand neice of Richard Wetherell, white guy that "discovered" Mesa Verde
     
    tac foley and boatme98 like this.
  13. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,205
    7,160
    113
    The Salutreans migrated to North America from Europe during the ice age before the Indians. There are traces and spear points but the ocean levels were 400' lower during the ice age and most of their artifacts are probably under water. There was a skeletal find in WA some years back in ancient strata and it was not mongoloid. There is a tribe in Canada that has Salutrean DNA. Their spear points looked like this.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

    2,100
    2,409
    113
    Some scientists claim the Colorado River does not have enough volume to cut the Grand Canyon
     
  15. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

    3,180
    3,001
    113
    As it exist today surely not.
     
  16. sheepdawg

    sheepdawg Well-Known Member Supporter

    3,372
    8,781
    113
    The Mississippi River always fascinated me. The way one of the mightiest of rivers just shifts it's course. In 1865 the largest American maritime disaster took place with the explosion of the riverboat Sultana just north of Memphis. What was left of it found a few years ago in a soybean field two miles west the river. A small part of Kentucky is on the west side of the river due to a shift in it's course.

    https://www.thedailytimes.com/news/...cle_54273295-0969-5880-99b3-6ad40d0d4cfd.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Bend
     
    tac foley, ellis36 and boatme98 like this.
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    25,287
    14,478
    113
    I have a question for folks familiar with the 4 Corners area of the US (happen to love that area, BTW) Have been there, including the 4 Corners Monument. Look REAL close at the map. Funny thing happens to the state line between CO and UT just a few feet north of the 4 Corners. What gives? (Hint- NOT 4 corners of 90 degrees)
     
    winds-of-change and tac foley like this.
  18. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

    863
    1,212
    93
    For example, good-sized stones sitting in the middle of fields or valleys, or standing on top of a hill or mountain, where it has "no business" being. Yet, they are there. Completely different composition than the region's other rocks.


    Glacial erratics. Stones grabbed by glaciers and moved far from their point of origination.


    The Big Rock, near Okotoks (outskirts of Calgary), in Alberta, Canada, believed to have come a couple hundred miles from the mountain areas of present-day Jasper:

    [​IMG]



    Norber erratics, near Clapham, Yorkshire, England:

    [​IMG]



    A boulder in present-day Shockland, Netherlands, believed to have come via glacier from Norway:

    [​IMG]
     
    boatme98 likes this.
  19. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

    8,348
    9,773
    113
    Barnesville, Md., Sugarloaf Mtn.
    12187678_780614348751566_8538911114451033445_n.jpg
    A monadnock, most likely a remnant of the Appalachian land mass.
    Rising about 800' above the peneplain, it's height is about 1280'.
    I lived in the DC area on and off for many years and did lots of day hikes there.
    Also, though very illegal, I would bushwhack and camp on the mountain a lot. I used it as test area for new equipment.
    It's privately owned by the Stronghold Corp.so there were no real rangers patrolling and the guards stuck to the main roads, they never went anywhere on foot except for the 2 trails to the top (both on the west side) during busy season.
    I could park outside of the park boundary and hike in.
     
    tac foley likes this.
  20. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

    1,003
    534
    113
    c3shooter, does this qualify as a viable & reasonable explanation...

    “It is interesting to note that, upon completion of his Arizona-New Mexico boundary survey, Chandler Robbins went to the effort to write a letter to the editor of The Santa Fe New Mexican (still today’s daily newspaper) explaining the very issue of the difference between longitude values referenced to the Greenwich Meridian and those referenced to the Washington Meridian. In this letter of November 1, 1875, Robbins included the following explanation:

    It seems to have been the general impression that the line was the 109 degrees of longitude west of Greenwich. Such is not the case, as the law makes it 32 degrees of longitude west from Washington, which corresponds to 109 degrees 02 minutes 59.25 seconds west from Greenwich, and which places the line a small fraction less than three miles farther west than would have been the case if it had been run as the 109 degrees of longitude.

    In these few words, Robbins takes the mystery out of a technical issue that has evidently confused and misled some people for more than a century.

    Nonetheless, there remains the question of how close the Four Corners monument is relative to its intended location. In fact, there is a discrepancy between the actual location, which we know to a high degree of accuracy, and our best knowledge of where it was intended to be located. But, instead of a 2.5-mile discrepancy, as reported in the initial news items, this offset is in fact only about 1800 feet, or less. Not only is the offset only about one-tenth of the alleged location error, it is in the opposite direction; the intended monument location is west of the actual monument. There is, however, uncertainty in precisely quantifying the relationship between the intended and actual monument locations due to changes, since 1875, in some technical details of the geodetic reference systems utilized. The actual offset might in fact be considerably less than our estimate.”

    https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/INFO/fourcorners.shtml

    Further, remember c3, the delineation of territory comprising current states AZ/NM/UT/CO has been extremely contentious before/during/while/after the territory was being formed by the “invaders” (Spanish/settlers/politicians/ad nauseam) after taking the lands from the prior inhabitants — the Natives!

    Twas the the natives or early settlers who didn’t use fancy surveying gadgets but rather “physical” landmarks to show their land mass boundaries!

    one hopes your curiosity is sated with this explanation...