America falls..

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by DickTheNickhead, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. DickTheNickhead

    DickTheNickhead New Member

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    Entertaining this idea always intrigues me. There are few ways I can (somewhat realistically) see this happening...
    1. America is in too much debt to too many countries and they come to collect...collapse of the dollar
    2. Overwhelming terrorist strikes and invasion on the homeland (this country is full of foreigners from around the world)
    3. Another recession that turns into a major depression
    4. A series of natural catastrophes

    ....don't worry, I won't mention the zombie apocalypse.

    What situation, if any, do you see causing major catastrophe/collapse in the US?
     
  2. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    The debit collection could lead to another Great Depression, which would be bad.. Natural selection if you will..

    As far as the immigrants here, I could be dumb but I'd like to believe the majority(anything over 50%) are here to make better life because where they come from is bad or unsafe.. Not to say they do not love where they come from(I would expect them too, and hope they have pride as such) but I think they are glad to be here.. Not to say some wouldn't turn tail at the first sign of 'real' collapse , but I don't think most would.
     

  3. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    What lasts forever, except left over turkey at thanksgiving?

    Today, more people accept food subsidies from the government than have full time jobs. Once a system of government reaches the tipping point where people take more than they pay in taxes, that system is doomed.
     
  4. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Civil war in this country would be the cause of tens of millions of deaths and a complete disruption of society for many years. It would probably open the doors for some of our good friends, like China, to do the same kind of "intervention" that our country seems to employ so often. (To save us from ourselves, of course)

    What in, this country, is bad enough to even fantasize about this kind of scenario?

    Anyone who longs for a fun, exciting, hero filled, civil war is living in cloud-cuckoo-land. There would be nothing closer to Hell-on-earth in this country.
     
  5. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    The collapse of the dollar. Fiat money comes home to roost.
     
  6. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    There are two events that stand out in my mind that would cause major problems for the US.

    1. Pricing oil in a currency other than US dollars.

    2. Banks or other nations refusing to lend the US money.

    So far, neither of those two things have happened.

    China is pretty disinterested in the downfall of its largest trading partner. There's only one reason China has the money and power it has today, and that is moving manufacturing to China to take advantage of lower wages. China has so many internal problems that it doesn't have the means to wage any type of war against America, let alone the military capability to do so.

    Russia is and always has been terrified of the US. They think we're absolutely crazy. That supposition may have some merit to it. They're interested in us not attacking them, that's about it.

    We'll be crushed beneath the interest of our own debts long before a foreign invasion of any kind. It doesn't take hyperinflation to do the trick, just 20% or 30% would cause most of the destruction, especially if coupled with energy price increases.

    A civil war is highly unlikely, the people who would be doing the fighting are largely overweight and more interested in playing video games or smoking dope than doing anything productive or counter-productive for that matter.
     
  7. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    :) Exactly.



    Re the OP:

    In the not-too-distant future there'll be 10-billion people on this rock and every swingin dick will want the last few pieces of pie. And people will kill each other over food, potable water and living space. Maybe not in our lifetime, but sooner or later we'll have to deal with scarcity...either our own or somebody else's. Now don't peg me as some tree-huggin environut--which I'm not. Population increases exponentially and the figures are pretty indisputable. I'm not suggesting any solutions. Just the opinion that if global economic meltdowns, nuclear war, revolutions or natural disasters don't cause America to fall, eventually the have-nots are going to come for your stuff. And any series of severe disasters or famine or drought or global unrest will only make it come sooner rather than later.

    I'm ready.
     
  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Debt is not a problem as long as you don't pay it off........

    Invasions or our nation by outsiders is laughable. The only way invasions are successful, is if they come as a surprise. There are no massive build-up of troops that go unobserved any more.

    Recessions and depressions come and go, they always have and they always will.

    Natural disasters, we can't do a thing about.

    Overpopulation cures itself, through disease, hunger or war.

    Everything is the same as it has always been.

    Our economy is rapidly improving, the dollar is stable, Obama is getting us out of our last "Bush" war. I hate to disappoint, but "The end is not near."
     
  9. TankTop

    TankTop Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree 100% with everything ELSE you said... We are now involved in conflict in more countries than ever before, saying he is getting us out of the last "Bush" war is factually laughable, if anything we're deeper than ever. That could be one of the straws that breaks the camels back. We are now just meddling in everyone's business with no decisive action, just pissing everyone off. All it would take is a dirty bomb or two for society to collapse beyond what our government could manage, and the collapse would occur very rapidly!
     
  10. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    I think #'s 1 & 3 are the most likely. More locally, one major natural disaster could be a possibility. (Like Katrina)
     
  11. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Iraq + Afghanistan + Libya + Egypt = Mongo Quagmire!!!
     
  12. HankStone

    HankStone New Member

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    I see all the History that collapsed the Roman Empire,and no one is even talking about it,when we ignore History,what went around is bound to repeat itself.

    "The fall of Rome Book or CD"the CD was on the History Channel recently,one would think it's todays NEWS!
     
  13. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    If interest rates go up to anywhere close to historic norms there is NO WAY the USA could pay the interest on its debt. So says Bill Clinton(and every economist).
     
  14. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we would be better off living in a fantasy world. All is good. Have no worries, Obama will save us.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  15. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Very astute observation.
    As someone who has lived in europe half my life I agree.
    but its an inconvenient truth to the cold warriors.
     
  16. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    The Nation was broke and in debt. The President and His Wife had set down to dinner. The city of Washington was attacked by the most powerful army in the world.
    The President and his wife escaped death by minutes at the hands of a foreign invader. The Presidents home was set on fire as the invaders ate the presidential dinner.
    In order to cover the burned wall a nation on a budget "White" washed the mansion. It would for ever be the White House. This would all end in New Orleans in 1815 with American Patriots turning the enemy away.
    President Jefferson and his wife Dolly led the Nation through very tough times. The American people have a strong pedigree don't give up the fight.;)
     
  17. Donn

    Donn Active Member

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    Chainfire, you had me right up till the last line, second entry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  18. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Chainfire,

    The economy is improving, at least on paper. Notice I said economy, not the economic welfare of the average citizen. By welfare I don't mean government assistance, I mean the ability of the average citizen to support him or her self through employment and conduct of corporate activity.

    As far as the Fed printing money is concerned, the bubbas at the Fed realized that the international money supply, particularly the American money supply, was insufficient to meet demand because of all the speculation on real estate and commodities. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but what we are doing is paying off debt for cheap by devaluing our currency. The verdict is out as to whether or not this is a sound economic strategy. One things for sure, the dollar buys a lot less today than it has in previous years.

    There's still money to be made, but traditional employment is no longer able to provide the same standard of living that it did in decades past. The "system", if you will, was designed to keep Americans in debt and beholden to banks and corporations. It's a method of "controlling" the labor force. So far, it's worked.

    The question I have is this, what with all the blatantly unconstitutional things the American government is involved in, when will the people get fed up with it and what will happen afterwards? I don't expect a second revolution, but life could be very different if the American people put their foot down. That's looking increasingly unlikely, which means eventually more wars, more job loss, more wealth redistribution to the rich, and finally a descent into chaos or tyranny on a global scale.

    War is always offered up as a solution to economic problems and the people can always be convinced of the necessity for war. The corporate officers for the defense contractors and bankers of course, are laughing all the way to the bank.

    The latest government tyranny trap is entirely a product of fear (Isn't it always?), however, as opposed to a need to "control" everyone. Yes, that's right, the spying and coercive activities of our government are because a few people have managed to convince everyone else, including the majority of our government employees, that the "terrorists" will "get them" if they don't give up their liberties for "protection" from the "terrorists". It's like the "Red Scare" or as I call it, the "Red Farce" from the early days of the Cold War.

    All of that naturally leads to distrust between the government and its people and, as we see in America, an "arms race" of sorts between the government and the citizens. Never mind that it's all contrived, the people who sit on both sides of the fence believe it's real.

    On that note, I think we should spend less time and treasure in endless wars and more on useful human pursuits. Killing each other is the most base and morally bereft human pursuit I can think of. Look at it this way, if we spent the money we spent on the war in Iraq, we'd have a human outpost on Mars by now. The kind of money we spent could literally be used to colonize other planets. Unlike many other countries, we actually have the requisite technical capabilities, money, and resources to do that. Instead we've spent that money fighting intangible or existential threats that never materialized.
     
  19. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    How can the verdict be out on that? We were stupid with our money, which was borrowed in the 1st place, and as a result we are up to our eyeballs in debt. So now, we print MORE money, to "pay off" our debts, and in the process create inflation, so people can't afford what they used to. And, what happens if the people getting paid off in this inflated currency say "NO, sorry, not going to accept that."? Sounds to me like the verdict is in.....
     
  20. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    Our Nation was founded in debt. The Founding Fathers did not have ready cash they borrowed and so it started. There was so much worthless money in the early days it was referred to as "Shin Plasters".
    The Nation has survived depressions and Civil Wars. There has always been the "Doomsday" criers. The American system is alive and stressing as it is intended to do.:)